Level Up (A5E) Strength vs Dexterity imbalance cannot be solved without addressing the Melee vs Ranged Imbalance.

glass · Aug 26, 2020

Undrave said:
Also, too much OA spamming slows down the game. Too many reactions and interrupt are often cited as why D&D 4e was such a problem.

4e had two entirely separate sets of off-turn actions: Opportunity actions which were once per turn and immediate actions which were once per round. Much as I loved 4e, that always seemed more complicated than necessary. But just having opportunity actions ougt to be fine INMSHO.

FrogReaver said:
i did like 4e style marking.

I really liked it for Paladins and Mageblades. I preferred Essentials style defender auras for actual fighters, personally.

TwoSix said:
This. Take away Sharpshooter and Archery fighting style and all of a sudden melee is right back on top as the dominant damage-dealing mode.

Unless I am severely misunderstanding the situation, the cannot reprint Sharpshooter (with or without modifications). So in a Level Up-only game, the you can do that. OTOH, as soon as you are using it alongside the PHB it come right back....

_
glass.

Stalker0 · Aug 26, 2020

Haldrik said:
In reallife, the farthest accurate shooting is just under 1000 feet. For the sake of (theater of the mind) round numbers 1000 feet ( ≈ 300 meters) is fine for a "bow shot".

The world record for an accurate shot on a non-moving target is 993 feet, which is for the World Archery Competitions.

So an archer standing perfectly still, getting plenty of time to line up his shot, the target is not moving, absolute perfect weather conditions, and most importantly, not being fired at, was less than 1000 feet....and that is greatest archer in the world. Oh an lets not forget, the arrow merely has to penetrate the target, not steel armor, not magical forcefields, not tough natural armor.

But take any one of those away, and your effective range drops like a stone. So I still think a 75 foot range before penalties come in as completely reasonably.

Haldrik · Aug 26, 2020

Stalker0 said:
The world record for an accurate shot on a non-moving target is 993 feet, which is for the World Archery Competitions.

So an archer standing perfectly still, getting plenty of time to line up his shot, the target is not moving, absolute perfect weather conditions, and most importantly, not being fired at, was less than 1000 feet....and that is greatest archer in the world. Oh an lets not forget, the arrow merely has to penetrate the target, not steel armor, not magical forcefields, not tough natural armor.

But take any one of those away, and your effective range drops like a stone. So I still think a 75 foot range before penalties come in as completely reasonably.

Right.

Now translate these realworld numbers into a fantasy world of Robinhood and Herakles, with round numbers, where reallife athletic numbers heighten.

But the main point is, for practicable gaming reasons, the range of an arrow is effectively unlimited, because the target has to fit on a grid, or engage in an encounter.

And if your bow is unable to reach them, more likely than not, they have nothing that can reach you either!

When designing for balance, assume a bow can ALWAYS reach a target.

Horwath · Aug 26, 2020

We need charge action back.

Move your movement in a straight line over non-difficult terrain and make 1 melee attack. You have advantage on attack and all attacks on you have advantage. You must move minimum of 20 ft.

glass · Aug 26, 2020

Stalker0 said:
The world record for an accurate shot on a non-moving target is 993 feet, which is for the World Archery Competitions.
[...]
Oh an lets not forget, the arrow merely has to penetrate the target, not steel armor, not magical forcefields, not tough natural armor.

Fair points, but lets not also forget that the best archer in this world is going to be mediocre at best by the standards of a world with high level Fighters.

ETA:

Horwath said:
We need charge action back. Move your movement in a straight line over non-difficult terrain and make 1 melee attack. You have advantage on attack and all attacks on you have disadvantage. You must move minimum of 20 ft.

Why would charge make you harder to hit? In all previous editions where it made any difference at all it made you easier to hit.

_
glass.

Haldrik · Aug 26, 2020

Theater of the mind hates to micromanage distances.

When visualizing in ones mind what is happening, it is extremely unfriendly to require each player to visualize accurately the difference between 50 feet or 60 feet or 75 feet or 90 feet or a 100 feet, or a 120 feet, distance. Someone is going to visualize the respective distances of allies and hostiles differently, and there will be confusion and disagreement, and debate.

Where 10 feet ≈ 3 meters.

1 meter − melee
3 meters − extended reach
10 meters − close, near, move, throw
300 meters − bowshot

Any other numbers are unhelpful and interfere with gameplay.

Horwath · Aug 26, 2020

glass said:
Fair points, but lets not also forget that the best archer in this world is going to be mediocre at best by the standards of a world with high level Fighters.

ETA:
Why would charge make you harder to hit? In all previous editions where it made any difference at all it made you easier to hit.

_
glass.

sorry, typo.

fixed

Stalker0 · Aug 26, 2020

Horwath said:
We need charge action back.

Move your movement in a straight line over non-difficult terrain and make 1 melee attack. You have advantage on attack and all attacks on you have advantage. You must move minimum of 20 ft.

The houserule in my current game is that if you take the dash action, and have extra attack, you can use a bonus action to make a single attack. I took out the bonuses and penalties for charge, as well as the straight line requirements, as 5e seems to go for a simplier and less rigid movement system.

coolAlias · Aug 26, 2020

Stalker0 said:
The houserule in my current game is that if you take the dash action, and have extra attack, you can use a bonus action to make a single attack. I took out the bonuses and penalties for charge, as well as the straight line requirements, as 5e seems to go for a simplier and less rigid movement system.

I think I will be stealing that, thank you very much!

Horwath · Aug 26, 2020

Stalker0 said:
The houserule in my current game is that if you take the dash action, and have extra attack, you can use a bonus action to make a single attack. I took out the bonuses and penalties for charge, as well as the straight line requirements, as 5e seems to go for a simplier and less rigid movement system.

even though it requires 5th level, I think is too much and it robs the ranged characters of a chance of a "clever use of terrain"

Level Up (A5E) Strength vs Dexterity imbalance cannot be solved without addressing the Melee vs Ranged Imbalance.

glass

(he, him)

Stalker0

Legend

Haldrik

Hero

Horwath

Legend

glass

(he, him)

Haldrik

Hero

Horwath

Legend

Stalker0

Legend

coolAlias

Explorer

Horwath

Legend

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