D&D 5E With Saltmarsh, how much of GH is now fair game?

MurlyndX said:

Resurrecting an old thread here, I know....sorry.

I've recently been struggling with this issue. I've developed an adventure to be used with the saltmarsh hardback. And I've been wondering whether I can publish it. I use or mention the Scarlet Brotherhood, Iuz, Captain Xendros, Tharzidun, and Kiara Shadowbreaker as well as the environs of Saltmarsh locations.

All of these are in the hardback ... which leaves me wondering if they are fair game or not.

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Free legal advice:

Err on the side of caution and stick only to FR, Ravenloft, Eberron, or Ravnica. Scarlet Brotherhood is going to be a no. Xendros is also going to be a no. Iuz is also a no. All three are only in GH settings.

Kiara Shadowbreaker probably as she's mentioned in Ghosts. Tharizdun is probably also okay as he's mentioned in PHB, DMG, Princes of the Apocalypse, and Mordenkainen's. But you can only refer to them in context of FR. Accordingly, you're not treading new ground (in Greyhawk) by referring to them.

You do not want to wind up having to kill your darling.

You can also, likely, rename things. Like the Scarlet Brotherhood could be rebranded as the Crimson Fraternity (or some such). Of course, that would also mean that you can'r directly reference specific details of the organization that are a hard callback to the GH setting.

embee said:

Tharizdun is probably also okay as he's mentioned ...

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Tharizdun is never okay.

Allow the name of the eternal darkess to pass your lips, and you will regret what little life you have left.

Do not summon doom, or the winged monkeys of Hasbro's in-house counsel, by even thinking of Tharizdun. For that way lies madness.

Snarf Zagyg said:

Allow the name of the eternal darkess to pass your lips, and you will regret what little life you have left.

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Hey! I liked Eternal Darkness!

embee said:

Free legal advice:

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Everybody's a lawyer ...

embee said:

Lawyer by day. Rules lawyer by night.

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Oh .... waitaminute ....

embee said:

Err on the side of caution and stick only to FR, Ravenloft, Eberron, or Ravnica. Scarlet Brotherhood is going to be a no. Xendros is also going to be a no. Iuz is also a no. All three are only in GH settings.

Kiara Shadowbreaker probably as she's mentioned in Ghosts. Tharizdun is probably also okay as he's mentioned in PHB, DMG, Princes of the Apocalypse, and Mordenkainen's. But you can only refer to them in context of FR. Accordingly, you're not treading new ground (in Greyhawk) by referring to them.

You do not want to wind up having to kill your darling.

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Sigh ... I kinda figured I was reaching.

I suppose I could substitute the Zhentarim for Iuz/Xendros and the Red Wizards for the Scarlet Brotherhood ... but ... dang it ... it just works with Iuz and the SB ...

Thank you very much. Now ... off to do the rewrite.

MurlyndX said:

Everybody's a lawyer ...



Oh .... waitaminute ....



Sigh ... I kinda figured I was reaching.

I suppose I could substitute the Zhentarim for Iuz/Xendros and the Red Wizards for the Scarlet Brotherhood ... but ... dang it ... it just works with Iuz and the SB ...

Thank you very much. Now ... off to do the rewrite.

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One thing you can do, is make your adventure more generic, but give suggestions in a blue-text box giving suggestions for how to use the module in different settings. So for your evil god (let's say you change it to Myrkul, as Forgotten Realms is fair game), you could suggest switching Myrkul for Iuz in Greyhawk, the Dragon Below in Eberron, etc. Just a line or two there.

MurlyndX said:

Everybody's a lawyer ...



Oh .... waitaminute ....



Sigh ... I kinda figured I was reaching.

I suppose I could substitute the Zhentarim for Iuz/Xendros and the Red Wizards for the Scarlet Brotherhood ... but ... dang it ... it just works with Iuz and the SB ...

Thank you very much. Now ... off to do the rewrite.

Click to expand...

There are a few questions one should ask when wondering whether something opens one up to legal liability:

1) Do I want to be the test case?

2) How much am I willing to pay to find out if I'm right?

3) Does a win in court translate to a win out of court?

As to (1), students are told in law school that every case in a textbook is because someone screwed up in an extremely avoidable way. You don't want to be a case in a textbook.

As to (2), the money you earn from publishing your adventure will be less than your legal fees incurred to defend. The US and UK are extremely different on this. In the UK, the loser pays the winner's legal fees. In the US, unless there is an express agreement to hold harmless or litigation conduct meriting an award of fees as a sanction, parties pay their own legal fees regardless of outcome.

As to (3), for the record, I do debt collection law. It's a less-than-glamorous area of practice that exists where the rubber meets the road.

The DMs Guild license is not the OGL. It's a different license. That said, the DMs Guild license is, at the end of the day, a license. That means that they're letting you use some of their IP but that IP ultimately still belongs to them. The original stuff that you bring to the table - that remains yours. However, you are giving them a license to use your IP that you publish under the DMs Guild license.

And DMs Guild appears to give a slightly enlarged license to use their proprietary monsters (such as mind flayers and beholders).

What does this all mean in a practical sense?

A license is kind of like a ticket. In fact, a ticket is a license. A license to use. If you go to the theatre, your ticket is a license to use a particular seat at a particular show. And, if you don't comply with the theatre's rules, they may be able to revoke that license (kick you out).

So, let's say that under the best case scenario you won in court and the characters you want to use are technically permitted to use those characters. What do you win? A spot on a blacklist.

It sucks. It really does. But it's better to save yourself a lot of grief later by accepting a little grief now.

I’ve been advocating giving Greyhawk to GaryCon like areas of the FR have been given to Gameholecon and Baldman Games. Join me in doing so and elevate our voices so that Tharizdun can be set free...

Uh.

so at least some place authors can write new Greyhawk material.

embee said:

It sucks. It really does. But it's better to save yourself a lot of grief later by accepting a little grief now.

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Agreed.

And I appreciate your informed advice.

embee said:

Free legal advice:

Err on the side of caution and stick only to FR, Ravenloft, Eberron, or Ravnica. Scarlet Brotherhood is going to be a no. Xendros is also going to be a no. Iuz is also a no. All three are only in GH settings.

Kiara Shadowbreaker probably as she's mentioned in Ghosts. Tharizdun is probably also okay as he's mentioned in PHB, DMG, Princes of the Apocalypse, and Mordenkainen's.

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I'm having a little difficulty following the rationale on this one.
Iuz is mentioned in: The Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, Ghosts of Saltmarsh, Tales from the Yawning Portal, DMG, Princes of the Apocalypse, and Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes.
That seems like more than enough to include him.
Scarlet Brotherhood is mentioned in Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, Ghosts of Saltmarsh, Basic Rules, and Player's Handbook. (even being Suel!)

And if nothing else, Ghosts of Saltmarsh is specifically allowed. The opening of the book specifies it's set in GH.

Telling people to avoid content for the reasons you've given is horrible advice.
The WORLD of Greyhawk, as a whole, isn't allowed. But material from Saltmarsh is specifically allowed. Even Captain Xendros. As well as Keoland, Dreadwood, et al. ... if it's it the Saltmarsh book. (or core).
Don't wanna take my word for it? Take Jeremy Crawford's.