D&D General Rulings, not Rules: How Will You Solve the Bard / Half Elf Dilemma?

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Pedantic Grognard

• May 5, 2021

• #11

Like I voted, I'd go with #5 (the 0E Bard that became the 2E Bard), but if you made me use the 1E Bard, I'd go with #2.

The rules for bards look like the general "The Character With Two Classes", but are not. I particularly note that the explicit requirement that bards have a Dexterity of 15 is either a contradiction or a redundancy if we are using "The Character With Two Classes" rules, since then they would already have to have a Dexterity of 17. Between this, the half-elf mention, and the fact that no reference is made to "The Character With Two Classes", then, the bardic progression is best treated as its own independent thing, not a case of dual-classing.

 

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Mecheon

Sacabambaspis

• May 5, 2021

• #12

Backport them 2E rules or just, let half elves multiclass

 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal

• May 5, 2021

• #13

Only humans can dual class. So a half-human can duel class. But it's important to know a half-humans like the half-ogre (from Dragon if I recall correctly) can not be Bards, only humans with elven blood.

shrug I never would have ruled that back then, but it's a fun argument that half-races could follow the dual/multi-classing rules of either parent.

 

Umbran

Mod Squad

Staff member

Supporter

• May 5, 2021

• #14

Snarf Zagyg said:

6. Other- explain in the comments.

Click to expand...

The basic solution for 1e is "Don't worry about consistency."

If you plan to be a bard, the character runs by the bard rules. If, for some reason, they don't make that final jump... big whoop. The world doesn't end, so why worry about it?

 

Jack Daniel

dice-universe.blogspot.com

• May 5, 2021

• #15

#5 is what I actually do (and how I voted), but #4 is how I read the rules in the PHB.

 

fearsomepirate

Hero

• May 5, 2021

• #16

I voted #2, in that the Bard class as written seems to be unconscious of any conflicting rules, and therefore should be read as overriding them.

 

Twiggly the Gnome

Legend

• May 5, 2021

• #17

Hardass DM answer: you can only fulfill the prerequisites as a human. The only way to be a half-elf bard is to be reincarnated as a half-elf after becoming a bard. Being special due to improbable rolls is what 1e is all about!

 

Li Shenron

Legend

• May 5, 2021

• #18

Simply consider the Bard class rules more specific than the rest.

If a player wants to be a Bard, they must be Human or Half-Elf and follow the Fighter->Thief->Druid->Bard special progression rules.

There is no change of mind allowed that could result in a non-bard character with a normally illegal combination of race and classes. IIRC this is an edition where multiclassing (not dual classing) combinations are set since the start, is that right? Thus not being able to change your mind is the norm.

 

mach1.9pants

Hero

• May 5, 2021

• #19

The bard rule is nothing to do with dual or multi classing. Dual classing is not mentioned in quote 1. So bards are different and follow the rules listed, not the dual classing rules. As long as the character had the attributes for bard, they're fine (they don't need the 17 in Dex to make a dual class Thief). They also wouldn't have the restrictions when Thief, like a dual class fighter then Thief would.

But it's all irrelevant because a) no one ever rolled 15,15,15,15,12,10 IME, and b) no one even knew about bard in the appendix, let alone wanted to be one!

 

Last edited: May 5, 2021

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dmhelp

Explorer

• May 5, 2021

• #20

And I think the half elf bard with a 15 str can exceed their fighter level limit.

Isn’t there a half elf bard pregen pc you can choose in tomb of horrors? Nevermind it is a ranger/cleric/MU which isn’t allowed, right? Although if gygax allows r c mu then by that logic you could play f d mu....

Maybe it was H1 or H2 with the half elf bard.

Yes level 16 half elf bard. They never say the fighter or thief level but list thaco 14 and thief skill %s.

 

Last edited: May 5, 2021