D&D 5E D&D Magic the Gathering alternate magic system

CubicsRube · May 11, 2021

Charlaquin said:
Blue should be INT based. Blue is the color of logic, thought, intellect, etc. Red could probably be CHA based, as the color of passion, emotion, and impulse. Black could be CHA based, for the same reason warlocks are - making deals with powerful dark forces and such. In fact, the colors line up pretty nicely with the D&D caster types.

White: Cleric
Blue: Wizard
Black: Warlock
Red: Sorcerer
Green: Druid

You're right.

Aelryinth · May 11, 2021

Charlaquin said:
Blue should be INT based. Blue is the color of logic, thought, intellect, etc. Red could probably be CHA based, as the color of passion, emotion, and impulse. Black could be CHA based, for the same reason warlocks are - making deals with powerful dark forces and such. In fact, the colors line up pretty nicely with the D&D caster types.

White: Cleric
Blue: Wizard
Black: Warlock
Red: Sorcerer
Green: Druid

Three of those also map to Alignments, however.
I'd go Black: Intellect and Charisma, with Intellect dominant if Evil. Pragmatic to the Core.
Blue: Intellect all the way, disregarding almost everything else.
White: Charisma and Wisdom. Zealots are part of Law, Good is wise.
Green: Wisdom with closeness to Nature.
Red: Charisma, as force of personality dominates Chaos.

cbwjm · May 11, 2021

I'd just let the player choose which ability to use for casting their spells. If you look back through the history of magic and the various cards they've created they've had wizards for each colour, priests for each colour, paladins for each colour, etc. I think it works better to allow all of these archetypes for each colour and just let them choose based on what kind of caster they want to be, perhaps following the spellcasting ability for each class as normal.

MoonSong · May 11, 2021

CubicsRube said:
I like the idea of a planeswalker being the level 20 culmination of a wizards power. Perhaps a limited format of plane shifting at lower levels and an at will ability at level 20.

Except, the planeswlaker spark is closer to what a sorcerer is. Not everybody has one to begin with...

Dannyalcatraz · May 11, 2021

I meant to say this earlier but I didn’t: one of the reasons I looked outside of D&D for MtG roleplaying is D&D’s class system. Planeswalker magic doesn’t neatly map onto distinct classes. While some effects are more common in certain colors than others, all colors can do direct damage. All can heal. All can ward. All can summon. (Few effect types are actually void in certain colors- poison is probably still one, I’d imagine.)

Hell, summoning is such a huge part of every color in MtG that it REALLY doesn’t mesh well with D&D’s system.

And that doesn’t get into resource destruction. Whether it’s discard, land destruction or board clearing, MtG has a lot of powerful resets. Many of them are purely offensive, but probably just as many are akin to a Queen sacrifice- harmful to the one taking the action, but necessary to win.

Besides that, nothing in MtG limits you to a single color beyond deck efficiency. If you can make a rainbow deck work- and I have- you can play it. Shoehorning that into a class system is going to be awkward at best.

Charlaquin · May 11, 2021

Dannyalcatraz said:
While some effects are more common in certain colors than others, all colors can do direct damage. All can heal. All can ward.

I don’t think you’re wrong to want to use another system to emulate MTG magic, and your reasoning is perfectly valid, but this bit... Isn’t really true. There are a lot of effects that show up in every color, yes, but there are also a lot of effects that don’t, direct damage and life gain among them. Blue and red don’t have life gain and white and blue don’t have direct damage, outside of a few much older cards that wouldn’t get printed under the current design paradigm. Counterspells basically only show up in blue with a few rare exceptions, likewise for unconditional creature destruction in black. Red and black can’t destroy enchantments, and black can’t destroy artifacts. There are a lot of restrictions around which colors can do what.

Dannyalcatraz said:
All can summon.

Obviously, as it’s a core mechanic of the game, though notably the colors do so at different densities - white gets the most creatures, followed by green (green gets the biggest creatures though), then black is the middle of the road, red gets the second-fewest, and blue gets the fewest.

Dannyalcatraz said:
(Few effect types are actually void in certain colors- poison is probably still one, I’d imagine.)

Ironically, poison does actually show up in every color, via Infect. It was the signature mechanic of the New Phyrexians, which appeared in every color. Though I expect if the Phyrexians return, we probably won’t see Infect again because it was massively overpowered and generally not very well-received.

Charlaquin · May 11, 2021

While I do think summoning spells would be important for an MTG RPG, I don’t think they would necessarily need to be super prominent. Summoning creatures is a big part of the gameplay, but in the novels, comics, etc. it’s not really that much of a thing. It happens - Garruk likes to summon beasts, Leliana raises undead minions, etc. but nothing beyond what you I might expect from a druid or a necromancer in D&D. Players in a game of magic are more comparable to pre-Mending Planeswalkers, who were practically gods, but the post-mending walkers who are the main characters of the storyline don’t really fight with armies of summoned creatures. They’re much more like regular, albeit gifted, Mages who can also Planeswalk.

Dannyalcatraz · May 11, 2021

Charlaquin said:
I don’t think you’re wrong to want to use another system to emulate MTG magic, and your reasoning is perfectly valid, but this bit... Isn’t really true. There are a lot of effects that show up in every color, yes, but there are also a lot of effects that don’t, direct damage and life gain among them. Blue and red don’t have life gain and white and blue don’t have direct damage, outside of a few much older cards that wouldn’t get printed under the current design paradigm. Counterspells basically only show up in blue with a few rare exceptions, likewise for unconditional creature destruction in black. Red and black can’t destroy enchantments, and black can’t destroy artifacts. There are a lot of restrictions around which colors can do what.

Obviously, as it’s a core mechanic of the game, though notably the colors do so at different densities - white gets the most creatures, followed by green (green gets the biggest creatures though), then black is the middle of the road, red gets the second-fewest, and blue gets the fewest.

Ironically, poison does actually show up in every color, via Infect. It was the signature mechanic of the New Phyrexians, which appeared in every color. Though I expect if the Phyrexians return, we probably won’t see Infect again because it was massively overpowered and generally not very well-received.

Well, what drove my design decisions when I was designing my campaign were the cards available at the time. I started with Alpha, but haven’t played or bought any of the new cards in years, so of course my perception of the game is going to be different than what’s going on now.

cbwjm · May 11, 2021

I have thought that savage worlds would do a magic campaign fairly well, the magic system uses trappings to modify magical effects. This means that a summon spell could have the trappings of "beast" for Garruk, "fire elemental" for Chandra, and "zombie" for Liliana.

I still wish I had the inquest gamer magazine (I think) that had conversion ideas for mtg to DnD. This would have been in the late 90s that it came out. Well and truly gone now.

At any rate, the new summon spells combine well with the conjuration spells for planeswalkers. I also tend to go off the more recent stories for ideas rather than focusing on the cards for the basic abilities of a mtg character. They're still great for ideas for monsters & NPCs and other spell ideas, but otherwise I think we have enough spell effects to start us off.

I've found some more ideas I had for a MtG planeswalker game. I had some planeswalker feats, more boons really since you had to be a planeswalker to get them, which tacked on coloured magic to any character. At its most basic it was the magic initiate feat and then a series of other feats that taught more spells and provided spell slots specifically for these spells separate from any other form of spellcasting. Never trialled it though. It could just be some innate spells useable a few times a day and allow them to choose more as they level

Aelryinth · May 11, 2021

Another way of looking at the standard Classes are that they are what allows you to wield Gold Magical effects, as they cross colors, and are a signature of a planeswalker. Restricting others to single colors, specific combos (Ravnica guilds) or bordering/allied colors (certain other organizations) is also a possibility.