I agree that spells will be more impactful. Just pointing out that it's possible to make a martial with a round-by-round decision tree of similar complexity to that of a wizard.
D&D 5E Martials v Casters...I still don't *get* it.
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So here's an example from my last game.
The Gnome Wizard had the spell "Contact Other Plane". With a high int save + advantage on magic saves as a gnome + his buddy paladin's aura, the wizard could only fail the insanity save 1 in 400 times. As a ritual, this spell effectively became "at-will" during downtime. (within some reason, obviously the paladin had things to do as well, and I utilized fatigue to basically allow for 8 hours a day of divining).
I did a two week downtime, and I went out with the Wizard player for lunch. He spent the whole lunch just asking me divination questions. Probably went through 300 questions all said and done (for those curious I used an auto-roller, he did fail once after like the 200th question, so had to see the cleric to get fixed up).
Now obviously not every wizard could pull that off, but you give players hooks and they find ways to make things happen. This is just one such example.
The Gnome Wizard had the spell "Contact Other Plane". With a high int save + advantage on magic saves as a gnome + his buddy paladin's aura, the wizard could only fail the insanity save 1 in 400 times. As a ritual, this spell effectively became "at-will" during downtime. (within some reason, obviously the paladin had things to do as well, and I utilized fatigue to basically allow for 8 hours a day of divining).
I did a two week downtime, and I went out with the Wizard player for lunch. He spent the whole lunch just asking me divination questions. Probably went through 300 questions all said and done (for those curious I used an auto-roller, he did fail once after like the 200th question, so had to see the cleric to get fixed up).
Now obviously not every wizard could pull that off, but you give players hooks and they find ways to make things happen. This is just one such example.
Jefe Bergenstein
Legend
Because an adventure ends. And in the three weeks between adventures, the casters get to rewrite reality each day without begging the DM to make a skill check. And they can also make a skill check if they want to slum it.
I want to have a non-caster like Zemo, Batman, Joker, etc. Where the player just gets to narrate how events play out, similar to casters get to do.
Many people have a really hard time characters being so good at something that they can transcend real world limitations - unless magic is involved, then it's totally fine - because magic.
A bit ago there was a long thread where a decent number of people were arguing that the 11th level rogue ability reliable talent was just too good for gasp a mundane person. That it's ridiculous to believe that a rogue could do that without magic.
So the paladin used his very combat pillar useful aura & spent a few days of game time watching the wizard cast a ritual spell to ask a bunch of questions consisting of "On a successful save, you can ask the entity up to five questions. You must ask your questions before the spell ends. The GM answers each question with one word, such as "yes," "no," "maybe," "never," "irrelevant," or "unclear" (if the entity doesn't know the answer to the question). If a one-word answer would be misleading, the GM might instead offer a short phrase as an answer."
How often do those answers come up in play during the average session?
Asisreo
Patron Badass
But I'm giving you the opportunity to demonstrate how powerful casters are and giving you "cheat codes" to help. The challenge is to show that casters have absolutely 0 problems engaging in combat.
I don't contest that Wizards have great utility, but that utility is only out-of-combat. Wizards have a breadth of options in-combat as well, but how powerful are those options actually when you just don't know if the game works.
But it seems like you really want me to provide you a sample list. Here's one you can use, but you're not bound to it:
Cantrips: Firebolt, Minor Illusion, Light, Prestidigitation, Mage Hand.
1st: Shield (Spell Mastery), Mage Armor
2nd: Invisibility (Spell Mastery), Mirror Image, Misty Step
3rd: Counterspell (Signature Spell), Fly, Haste, Dispel Magic (Signature Spell
4th: Polymorph, Greater Invisibility, Dimension Door, Banishment
5th: Animate Objects, Wall of Force
6th: Arcane Gate, Globe of Invulnerability, Disintegrate
7th: Delayed Blast Fireball, Finger of Death, Teleport
8th: Demiplane, Maze,
9th: Wish, True Polymorph, Meteor Swarm, Time Stop
Is this a fair spell list? You can use these spells and list the spells you wish to cast in-combat against these enemies.
Jefe Bergenstein
Legend
This. Casters need to really be gutted to make martials work, and as we saw with 4E, gamers will pitch a hissy fit if their caster cant rule over the "jocks" in their D&D. There's a modicum of parity in things like savage worlds, where a caster needs to spend the equivalent of a feat to learn two new spells (on top of making a roll to cast), but sadly D&D has always been dedicated to making magic far too easy and available.
Really there should be no "mundane" non-caster in D&D, given how gonzo casters are. The fighter past level 5 should be modeled after Captain America, Thor, Hercules, etc.
Jefe Bergenstein
Legend
Lots of gamers have garbage imagination and make disingenuous appeals to "realism" (in D&D of all things!) to justify it. I personally have trouble understanding how there are non-casters in a world where magic works more reliably than my cell phone coverage and player characters violate the laws of reality more times a day than they poop. There's nothing magical about D&D magic.
Jefe Bergenstein
Legend
I don't feel tis thread wont change your mind, when it was started with a specific premise.
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Out of curiousity, how often do people actually see grumbling from the other players when someone brings a utility-focused caster to the table? In my experience, the other players are usually thrilled, because the utility caster's spells give the entire party many more strategic and tactial options.
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