D&D 5E Greyhawk: Why We Need Mo' Oerth by 2024

David Howery · May 27, 2022

while the WoG is my favorite campaign, there's a rather large question to be answered before it can be updated for 5E: Pre or Post Wars. The two settings have some big differences.... nations and people wiped out, etc. One of the biggest ones is the role of the Scarlet Brotherhood... Pre Wars, they are a shadowy semi-mythical 'work in the background' society. Post Wars, they are outed and a major player in the Flanaess. Both versions have their fans and detractors, and WOTC is going to have to decide which way to go...

deganawida · May 27, 2022

David Howery said:
Pre Wars, they are a shadowy semi-mythical 'work in the background' society. Post Wars, they are outed and a major player in the Flanaess. Both versions have their fans and detractors, and WOTC is going to have to decide which way to go...

Wait, they were kind of like SPECTRE or the League of Assassins? That's awesome! I only came across them in 3e and thought the public facing Nazis was a bit dumb (my opinion only). Shadowy groups that use intermediaries are much more fun.

Mort · May 27, 2022

David Howery said:
while the WoG is my favorite campaign, there's a rather large question to be answered before it can be updated for 5E: Pre or Post Wars. The two settings have some big differences.... nations and people wiped out, etc. One of the biggest ones is the role of the Scarlet Brotherhood... Pre Wars, they are a shadowy semi-mythical 'work in the background' society. Post Wars, they are outed and a major player in the Flanaess. Both versions have their fans and detractors, and WOTC is going to have to decide which way to go...

Sure.

OR you you could have it both ways and have the Scarlet Brotherhood be emerging as the major player (and all the consequences of that happening). I did this with my last campaign and it was a blast (moreso because despite routinely DMing in Greyhawk I'd never really used the Scarlet Brotherhood much, so even my longer tenured players were surprised).

Mort · May 27, 2022

deganawida said:
Wait, they were kind of like SPECTRE or the League of Assassins? That's awesome! I only came across them in 3e and thought the public facing Nazis was a bit dumb (my opinion only). Shadowy groups that use intermediaries are much more fun.

Kind of, plus crossed with being radical human supremacists. It can be a REALLY fun combination.

AdmundfortGeographer · May 27, 2022

Ruin Explorer said:
You seem to have made up something I didn't say, which rather supports my partisan point, I'd suggest.

Which has irony because you seem to be connecting outcomes through nostalgia-colored glasses.

Ruin Explorer said:
What I said was that the attempts to make Greyhawk happen were, individually and collectively, a complete failure.

“… make Greyhawk happen” means what?

Even sustained publishing you said was partial failure.

Maxperson · May 27, 2022

Helldritch said:
I, for one, would love to see a new Greyhawk set. I loved the From the Ashes box set and the whole line that derived from it. The mild attempts made after that were.... tasteless? But they can easily update Greyhawk with the new races and new political intrigues. Anything can be done and frankly, I do not want a reprint, Drive through RPG is there for that. I want new stuff, a new take on Greyhawk that will both shake things up but that will also acknowledge what came before. It is not hard to do.

I would like to see a significant new Greyhawk product made. It's a setting book that I would buy in a heartbeat.

Ruin Explorer · May 27, 2022

AdmundfortGeographer said:
“… make Greyhawk happen” means what?

The time to ask that was the first time I said it. Claiming you don't understand it, when you understood it just fine the first few times means to me that you're just trying to bust my balls rather have an honest discussion. If not, well, soz, next time ask earlier if you genuinely don't understand a phrase!

Mort · May 27, 2022

Ruin Explorer said:
You seem to have made up something I didn't say, which rather supports my partisan point, I'd suggest.

What I said was that the attempts to make Greyhawk happen were, individually and collectively, a complete failure. That's not the same as the setting itself being a "complete failure". That's a very different claim and not one I would make. If your intention is to make a setting worth publishing official material for, in terms of popularity, and you fail at that, I believe it is absolutely fair to call that attempt a "complete failure". Don't make up stuff like "eternal publishing", it's not helpful. If they'd managed, in 3E, for example, to even make GH popular enough to be worth publishing a line of GH setting books for, even if it didn't make it to the end of 3E or into 4E, that wouldn't be a complete failure, or necessarily even a failure, just a limited success. But they didn't manage that.

Their toe dip into Greyhawk, Ghosts of Saltmarsh, was a solid supplement, and by all accounts, well received. So I wouldn't call 5e Greyawk a failure, just limited.

Mannahnin · May 27, 2022

Snarf Zagyg said:
Just to be clear .... WoTC's designers are partisans in favor of Greyhawk ... and yet they haven't made it a mainstream setting in 27 years.

With partisans like that, maybe Greyhawk needs enemies at Hasbro?

They didn't publish a setting book for it in 3rd ed or 4th, right?

Although in 3rd it was the setting for the Living Greyhawk organized play campaign, and they had gazetteers supporting that, if I recall correctly. And I guess a 32 page softcover Dungeons & Dragons Gazetteer, which was actually using Oerth as an example of how to make a campaign world?

Living Greyhawk Gazetteer - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Dungeons & Dragons Gazetteer - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

But that doesn't seem like a full attempt at making it an official setting, like the hardcover Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book FR got in 2001.

Ruin Explorer · May 27, 2022

Mort said:
Their toe dip into Greyhawk, Ghosts of Saltmarsh, was a solid supplement, and by all accounts, well received. So I wouldn't call 5e Greyawk a failure, just limited.

I agree, I wasn't counting that in my "failed attempts" list per se.