D&D 5E Greyhawk: Why We Need Mo' Oerth by 2024

Parmandur · May 28, 2022

I think that a slipcase set similar to Spelljammer, with a Castle Greyhawk dungeon crawl, a gonzo Monster book, and a book recreating the original Folio for a new audience would be a really slick 6pth anniversary product.

However, I now suspect that Eberron is going to get a revisit in 2024 instead. Time will tell.

Demetrios1453 · May 28, 2022

Mannahnin said:
Yeah, it seems to me like WotC originally wanted to focus on Greyhawk as part of their "back to the dungeon"/back to classic approach with 3rd, but they didn't know how to execute on it properly.

They gave us the gods in the 3E PH but not much more by way of setting. They did the cheap little gazetteer and used Greyhawk for the living campaign, but didn't give it a boxed set or a nice hardcover like FR got 1-2 years later.

Then the FRCS got a more deluxe treatment (perhaps aided by the fact that Ed Greenwood was still involved and interested in writing for it, though Sean K. Reynolds, Skip Williams and Rob Heinsoo also worked on it, so evidently a lot of the core team was behind it), and apparently a better reception. And in 4th they decided to try the new PoL/Nerath setting as default, while also supporting FR.

The 32 page gazetteer GH got reminds me a bit of the relatively short softcover splat books 3.0 originally had (Sword & Fist, Tome & Blood, Song and Silence, Masters of the Wild, and Defenders of the Faith). Which were functional and reasonably affordable, but I'm not sure gave as much depth as people wanted.

Beyond the 32-page book, there was the Living Greyhawk Gazeteer, which was a full sized book. It was ostensibly for the RPGA, but there's not much RPGA material in it, and it functions nicely as full 3e guide for the setting. Well, other than the abysmal art...

Parmandur · May 28, 2022

Demetrios1453 said:
Beyond the 32-page book, there was the Living Greyhawk Gazeteer, which was a full sized book.

Pretty anemic stacked next to the FRCS, though.

I think that Greenwood being involved was the decisive factor, actually.

Demetrios1453 · May 28, 2022

Mort said:
I think the writers have with the limited sample we've seen so far - shown that they get it. Ghosts of Saltmarsh, for ex. had a Tiefling - but as a ship's captain from the Empire of Iuz. Which is EXACTLY where Tieflings would be from and really have existed all along (even if not named as such).

Nothing made my eyes roll more than the (thankfully few) ultra-grognards who were so stubbornly upset over that tiefling. Yes, they admitted, canonically people of fiendish descent do exist in the Lands of Iuz, but they can't be called tieflings because Gary didn't name them as such...

Parmandur · May 28, 2022

Demetrios1453 said:
Nothing made my eyes roll more than the (thankfully few) ultra-grognards who were so stubbornly upset over that tiefling. Yes, they admitted, canonically people of fiendish descent do exist in the Lands of Iuz, but they can't be called tieflings because Gary didn't name them as such...

And you can i.port Dragonborn as depicted in the PHB as wanderers from the West of Oerik very, very easily.

Staffan · May 28, 2022

Regarding Greyhawk in 3e, there were some other references sprinkled throughout the books, particularly in 3.0. For example, I think Sword & Fist had a "Knight of the Great Kingdom" prestige class, and of course you had the Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil adventure (though the lion's share of it was a big honkin' dungeon crawl, but that's also in character for "classic" Greyhawk adventures). But for the most part, Greyhawk was left alone for the RPGA to play with in the Living Greyhawk campaign. But I guess we can argue until we're blue like psionic goblins in our faces about what is cause and what is effect: was Greyhawk left alone so the RPGA could have it as a playground, or was it ceded to theh RPGA because Wizards weren't doing anything useful with it anyway?

Speaking of Living Greyhawk, I've seen people mention the 32-page D&D Gazetteer as the primary source of 3.0 GH info, but there was also the significantly larger Living Greyhawk Gazetteer (192 pages). I remember buying it, but not really getting any creative inspiration out of it, and looking through it they certainly didn't have much of an art budget for it (as a non-representative sample, I just checked 11 pages in a row in between two half-page line art illustrations). Comparing it to the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting that was published the year after is... laughable.

Malmuria · May 28, 2022

Snarf Zagyg said:
But the grognards? Won't they get mad?
Maybe? Who knows. You can't cater to angry people.

This is kind of a deal breaker for me personally. It wouldn't be, if I were a sensible person and avoided social media, because then I would be blissfully unaware of all the grumblings. But 5e has almost entirely been aimed at players of pre-4e editions and they just keep complaining (I know, it's a minority of people).

MonsterEnvy · May 28, 2022

At this point I really don’t care about the Grognards. They can grumble all they want. I bet they would even if a new book was a 1-1 copy of an old one.

Smackpixi · May 28, 2022

Parmandur said:
I think that a slipcase set similar to Spelljammer, with a Castle Greyhawk dungeon crawl, a gonzo Monster book, and a book recreating the original Folio for a new audience would be a really slick 6pth anniversary product.

Yes, (but less mega dungeoney please) and

LuisCarlos17f said:
fantasy videogames what want to imitate the look retro of the 80's, the spirit of Saturday morning,

A dash of this

LuisCarlos17f said:
the hipster of D&D

Also some of that.

Less blue skies USA network than FR, but not grim dark, DCC-lite in weird and I can imagine this happening. And would want to buy.

Azzy · May 28, 2022

David Howery said:
while the WoG is my favorite campaign, there's a rather large question to be answered before it can be updated for 5E: Pre or Post Wars. The two settings have some big differences.... nations and people wiped out, etc. One of the biggest ones is the role of the Scarlet Brotherhood... Pre Wars, they are a shadowy semi-mythical 'work in the background' society. Post Wars, they are outed and a major player in the Flanaess. Both versions have their fans and detractors, and WOTC is going to have to decide which way to go...

I prefer my SB be a shadowy cabal that works in the background, so I guess I'm pre-Wars. Though, put the campaign setting on the cusp the Wars would be best. That way you don't necessarily invalidate post-Wars canon, but aren't tied down by it, either.

D&D 5E Greyhawk: Why We Need Mo' Oerth by 2024

Parmandur

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Demetrios1453

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Parmandur

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Demetrios1453

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Parmandur

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Staffan

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Malmuria

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MonsterEnvy

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Smackpixi

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Azzy

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