GMforPowergamers
Legend
yeah I am very sure you can justfy Rocky being a Con attack boxer useing this.
D&D 5E D&D Next playtest post mortem by Mike Mearls and Rodney Thompson. From seven years ago.
- Thread starter darjr
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Oofta
Legend
This:
is not the image of a boxer with minimal strength. A boxer that has a high strength used to attack and a high constitution to survive a beating while probably dumping intelligence and wisdom? It's a great example of a common trope. But primarily con based? Nah.
Now this guy would have qualified if he had won any fights:
Except he didn't win any fights until he became:
GMforPowergamers
Legend
so would you say being able to lift and carry all day 8x15lbs (120lbs) is 'minimal' or the ability to push/pull drag 240lbs? does anyone remember the montogies... how much does he do?
Nobody (not I or anyone else) said dump str... but Con higher... heck with the defualt array that can be a 12 str ( so carry 180lbs all day and push pull 360 more then handles the training that I had to go look up)
Gonna fly now
It's the best part of every Rocky movie: The training montage. Ever since a young Sylvester Stallone chugged five eggs and huffed his way through the streets of
www.mensjournal.com
why? again, con is your health and body mass... it seems to me to be at least equal important to Strength.
and even this... in the first picture what would you rate his str score as? a 3 allows you to carry 45lbs all day or lift/pull/drag 90lbs... that puts a str of 3 just about my medical limit.
What part of "there is NO character in D&D by the rules that isn't strong" do you not get?
Heck, according to official Marvel Database, Captain America's full limits of strength is lifting up to 1,200 lbs with maximum effort, which gives him the ability to knock out Thunderball who possessed superhuman durability and also lift merge hulk. It's enhanced strength, but not at the superhuman level. Super Solider?
so the second pic needs to be able to lift 1,200lbs... that is a Str score about 40. so the first pic being a 1 (15lbs lift and carry 30lbs push/pull) or 2 (30lbs lift and carry 60lbs push/pull) and the second being a 40 means BOTH are unreachable by the rules..
If on the other hand you told someone the picture of pre SSS Steve (a lot of Ss) was a str 10 and after was a str 18 most would beleive that... but again that would mean before the serum he would lift 150lbs and carry it all day or push/pull 300lbs and after he could only carry 270lbs and push pull 540lbs
GMforPowergamers
Legend
Rocky obvusly needs Con, Str and Dex, but I would argue Cha as well... if we say he is a 4th level character we can give him an ASI and make him varriant human for Tavern Brawler...so would you say being able to lift and carry all day 8x15lbs (120lbs) is 'minimal' or the ability to push/pull drag 240lbs? does anyone remember the montogies... how much does he do?
Nobody (not I or anyone else) said dump str... but Con higher... heck with the defualt array that can be a 12 str ( so carry 180lbs all day and push pull 360 more then handles the training that I had to go look up)
Gonna fly now
It's the best part of every Rocky movie: The training montage. Ever since a young Sylvester Stallone chugged five eggs and huffed his way through the streets of
why? again, con is your health and body mass... it seems to me to be at least equal important to Strength.
15, 14, 13, 12, 10, and 8.
Variant Human
Source: Player's Handbook- Ability Score Increase. Two different ability scores of your choice increase by 1.
- Skills. You gain proficiency in one skill of your choice.
- Feat. You gain one Feat of your choice.
so 12 Str 13 Dex 15 Con 8 Int 10 Wis 14 Cha with 2 +1s then +1 str or con (con) a +2 for 12 Str 14 Dex 19 Con 8 Int 10 Wis 14 Cha sounds good to me and make unarmed strikes as a Con attack would be +6 1d4+4 with it ALMOST being maxed...
with that str he can carry all day 180lbs and push/pull/drag 360lbs... and run up steps. Now I would probalby make him a barbarian not so much for rage (although the Resit would help) but for the d12's HD and unarmerd defense... that would give him and AC 16
Oofta
Legend
Sylvester Stallone is obviously very strong. Constitution is a fighter's secondary attribute already. His punches pack a wallop because he's strong (and because of his training). He takes a lot of hits because he has a lot of HP. In D&D Rocky can easily be represented by a high strength, a high con and likely the tough feat for even more HP. No need to change the rules. He's not a fighter that relies primarily on constitution, that trope doesn't really exist that I know of other than you insisting it does.so would you say being able to lift and carry all day 8x15lbs (120lbs) is 'minimal' or the ability to push/pull drag 240lbs? does anyone remember the montogies... how much does he do?
Nobody (not I or anyone else) said dump str... but Con higher... heck with the defualt array that can be a 12 str ( so carry 180lbs all day and push pull 360 more then handles the training that I had to go look up)
Gonna fly now
It's the best part of every Rocky movie: The training montage. Ever since a young Sylvester Stallone chugged five eggs and huffed his way through the streets of
why? again, con is your health and body mass... it seems to me to be at least equal important to Strength.
and even this... in the first picture what would you rate his str score as? a 3 allows you to carry 45lbs all day or lift/pull/drag 90lbs... that puts a str of 3 just about my medical limit.
What part of "there is NO character in D&D by the rules that isn't strong" do you not get?
Heck, according to official Marvel Database, Captain America's full limits of strength is lifting up to 1,200 lbs with maximum effort, which gives him the ability to knock out Thunderball who possessed superhuman durability and also lift merge hulk. It's enhanced strength, but not at the superhuman level. Super Solider?
so the second pic needs to be able to lift 1,200lbs... that is a Str score about 40. so the first pic being a 1 (15lbs lift and carry 30lbs push/pull) or 2 (30lbs lift and carry 60lbs push/pull) and the second being a 40 means BOTH are unreachable by the rules..
If on the other hand you told someone the picture of pre SSS Steve (a lot of Ss) was a str 10 and after was a str 18 most would beleive that... but again that would mean before the serum he would lift 150lbs and carry it all day or push/pull 300lbs and after he could only carry 270lbs and push pull 540lbs
As far as accuracy of D&D rules, I never said they were accurate. However complaining about what strength means is just a red herring and has nothing to do with how you would represent Rocky in the game.
GMforPowergamers
Legend
how strong? is strength higher then his cha or con?
okay
I would argue that they don't stories of him hitting people on set don't show him hurting anyone but when 'the russian' hit him for real he broke ribs.
TBH I said con was the HARDEST to justify... it was someone else that brought up this justification and you are jumping at it to argue and 'prove' it wrong some how... Str Dex and Con are not 3 independent things in the real world and they are not in most fiction, they are in D&D... nothing says 1 needs to be the attack stat over the others... and as I have shown Wis and Int make as much sense (I think cha is pushing it but is easier to argue from tropes then con)
again YOU are the one arguing about some 'weak' character not 'looking' right, not I
Edit: I notice a bit of dishonesty here... your argument WAS that someone that looked like rocky could not have a low str score... when I showed that not to be the case you said
but if that's the case why argue that you have some accurate accounting we do not about what str score looks like?
Can you find ANY rule that says a 20str character can't look like what ever they want, what about an 8 (and don't be dishonest 8-20 is the standard allowable deviation)
Oofta
Legend
I have no idea what you're talking about. All I'm saying is that Rocky could easily be represented by current D&D rules. High strength and con. Whether or not D&D rules are particularly accurate is another story.
Rocky is not basing his attacks and damage on con which is what my understanding of your statement
If he were a "con attack boxer" there's no reason he could not look like:
Which obviously he does not and I can't imagine anyone accepting that as the image of a boxer.
P.S. strength has little to do with constitution in the real world, although there is usually a correlation between overall physical fitness.
GMforPowergamers
Legend
and yet I provided an explanation for a diffrent take that you seem to miss.
my statement is the game will balance better and we can pull examples that we can use from tropes... We can get more varied stats if we reward putting stats in other places (as opposed to punish)
When I started playing D*D all melee attacks were str I argued all the time Dex should matter more, 6ish years later they let you spend a resource to use dex with some weapons, then after another 12ish years just made some weapons use what ever is better.
okay if the player used this picture what stops them from having an 18 str? What is wrong with this being a competent warrior if that is what the player wants?
who does not? That isn't rocky nor did I or anyone suggest it was.
why not? do you not know there are light and heavy weights? Would you except that picture as lifting 150lbs and carrying it all day without tiring? what about push..pull/draging 300lbs? cause if not you are saying that ISN'T a str 10 (and I think I gave rocky a 12)
again strength constitution and dexterity are not 3 separate things in real world, at least not like they are in D&D. it's why weight lifting doesn't make you a good boxer, but dance classes might.
in the real world training trumps all and stamina and will power aide more in training then strength.
GMforPowergamers
Legend
this needs to be pulled out especially... Rocky isn't using strength dexterity constitution or charisma because he is instead using the script.
if making a character BASED on rocky in D&D I could argue for strength dexterity constitution or charisma attacks making sense.
Sacrosanct
Legend
If we're talking about Rocky, he's clearly a barbarian, because when he goes into his rage, the damage resistance is obvious. Prior to "this moment", he always gets beaten down. Then his mental flip gets flipped, and it seems like punches only do half damage to him from that point on.
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