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  1. W

    Pre-3e mechanics vs d20 system mechanics

    Neither of your statements make any sense in the context of the discussion.
  2. W

    Pre-3e mechanics vs d20 system mechanics

    It's never been complex. It's only complex if you let it be complex. The rules are your servant, not your master. On the contrary, a DM's judgement knowing the facts at hand is typically going to be better than a game designer's attempt at preemptively writing a rule. Being experienced in...
  3. W

    Pre-3e mechanics vs d20 system mechanics

    I see your point. After a quarter century of game design examples, d20 was only able to eliminate one core resolution mechanic from D&D as it was originally published. Game designers also have 0 experience casting fireball or fighting dragons. What makes the DM's judgement, who's aware of...
  4. W

    Pre-3e mechanics vs d20 system mechanics

    We're discussing unified mechanics. There's an assumption that pre-3e didn't have unified core mechanics. The game as originally published used only two core mechanics. Not bad for the very first time someone published an RPG. Rules expansions and new editions came out and added more stuff...
  5. W

    Pre-3e mechanics vs d20 system mechanics

    It means exactly that: "as originally published." The scope was set very clearly. Going by what I've read on the subject, I think he was trying to get a brand new idea down on paper. His Greyhawk and Arneson's Blackmoor used different rules. I think he was trying to distill the essence of the...
  6. W

    Pre-3e mechanics vs d20 system mechanics

    OD&D as originally published is a complicated game? Just because you have a list of 8 target numbers and no math vs. doing math against one target number? I wouldn't call finding a number in a list of eight numbers "complicated", but YMMV. I think we've covered over a few posts now that there...
  7. W

    Pre-3e mechanics vs d20 system mechanics

    Attack rolls in OD&D have very few modifiers and very small modifiers compared to d20. There's no base attack bonus and no strength modifiers. Plus, you can write down the target numbers for the eight armor classes your character sheet. As a player, you don't need to consult the table. The...
  8. W

    Pre-3e mechanics vs d20 system mechanics

    Yes, all of the "mechanic 1" and "mechanic 1a" checks (attacks, saving throws, and turn undead) are roll high. There is no official ability check mechanic described in the rules. However, it's worth pointing out that OD&D assumed a more "free" adjudication paradigm as opposed to the more...
  9. W

    Pre-3e mechanics vs d20 system mechanics

    If you go all the way back to OD&D (before supplements), there are only two(-ish) core game mechanics in the rules: (1) Roll a d20, add any modifiers, then compare the result to a target number found on a chart using your class & level vs. an armor class or saving throw category (1a) Roll 2d6...
  10. W

    % Chance to Learn New Spell

    BTB, you get a chance to learn each spell as soon as you find it, then again at every level up. If you fail to learn a spell you really want, you might be able to use spell research to make up your own custom spell that does something similar, like creating a frostball or acidball spell if you...
  11. W

    d66 dice rolls - linear or non-linear? OR 3d6 to replace d20

    Essentially what this is doing is figuring out the % chance on a d20, and then using that % to map to the 1-36 range generated by two six-sided dice (I'll call it d66 for brevity). Since the d20 percentages and the 1-36 percentages never change, why not just replace the percentages on the table...
  12. W

    d66 dice rolls - linear or non-linear? OR 3d6 to replace d20

    You can accurately simulate a d20 on two six-sided dice if you don't mind some re-rolling. For ease of explanation, I'll call the two dice "red" and "white". A red die result of 1 = +0 2 = +5 3 = +10 4 = +15 5 or 6 = re-roll this die A white die result of 1 thru 5 = the number rolled 6 =...
  13. W

    d66 dice rolls - linear or non-linear? OR 3d6 to replace d20

    The closest approximation I can come up with using only 2d6 is to have one die be a normal 1d6 and the other die act as a control die. If the control die comes up 1 or 2, then read the normal 1d6 die as is (i.e. the roll result is a number from 1 to 6). If the control die comes up 3 or 4, then...
  14. W

    What changed between editions

    Funny that you mention Campbell, CA in the 80s... I played in several different AD&D groups in the San Francisco Bay Area in the 80s and my experience was the same: none of them ever used minis, just "TotM" for combat. I don't think it was just a Northern California thing, either. People who...
  15. W

    AD&D/O.S.R.I.C: Creating XP Progression for Homebrewed Classes

    Excellent point. The item saving throw in particular is a tool provided in the DMG without much in the way of objective rules regarding how it's meant to be used. It's really up to the DM to use it as he or she sees fit.
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    AD&D/O.S.R.I.C: Creating XP Progression for Homebrewed Classes

    All of those examples are of magic items that are not currently being worn or held by characters. It's a pretty gray area subject to DM interpretation, but I believe the intent is that items being held or worn usually do not have to make item saving throws under normal circumstances. Item...
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    AD&D/O.S.R.I.C: Creating XP Progression for Homebrewed Classes

    I don't recall exactly how much backup Geryon had, but 12 pit fiends would probably be in the ballpark. It was a pretty nasty fight. Assuming each pit fiend used its hold person spell-like ability right away, that would mean each party member would have to make six saving throws vs. spell in...
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    AD&D/O.S.R.I.C: Creating XP Progression for Homebrewed Classes

    Part of what we did was political/kingdom stuff, part of it was extra-planar adventuring. The campaign was heavy on demons and devils, but we only had one fight against an arch-devil and none against a demon lord. We ran into Geryon on his home plane, got beaten badly, and had to flee. We had...
  19. W

    AD&D/O.S.R.I.C: Creating XP Progression for Homebrewed Classes

    Disagree strongly. Seeing the class operate in live play alongside other classes is a much better gauge of its effectiveness than raw theorizing. We played weekly for over a decade. The game was nowhere near "long over" at max level. The bard was being played weekly at max level for years...
  20. W

    AD&D/O.S.R.I.C: Creating XP Progression for Homebrewed Classes

    I'm speaking from my personal experience. I played in a high level 1e game where one of the characters was a max level bard. He was underwhelming. The thief skills, like you said, are not very useful at that level. The seven fighter levels (max a bard can have) gave him an extra half attack...
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