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see the lack of clarification makes it harder to do sure I want open-end options, but I also want a template for when I just need them to be something, also a trope is not a template onto itself.

okay working from that tell me what a goliath is then?

my point is we can't at present do that at all nor subvert expectations as none have been made.

Most of those settings were built for past editions, so I do not hold it against them, they were fine when they were made.

you got me on the abilites but the cosmetics amount to being big. It is more I want to see something to work with if someone wants to lean into it and not have to start from scratch. imagine if a goliath was with the fellow ship of the ring what would they be doing?

then why even have the option beyond the stats that are now gone?

It is certainly my problem, it is the gnome problem How do you integrate something that seems to have no past, present or future?

I have no issue with that, but a guiding option is helpful. It is both always someone's first game and someone's first time with the concept, having a path of least resistance for when you just need an answer is helpful. I get everyone is a blank slate but there also on the macro level a blank...

I also remember one where four of them went against heaven to save people from a drought and were punished by being crushed under mountains, but turned themselves into rivers so as to still help people.

it is more they have no setting that focuses on them is more my issue if we have one to work off everything is fine but no patter and you just have a stat block

You assume my dislike and snark at the present situation is the same as what I wish were the case. No, however some of us do not do well with a blank sheet with no clear idea how to make use of it, and goliaths do not inspire much at present, I wish for that to change.

I think they are some sort of relates species just not part of the giant giants, more like trolls and ogres, just not terrible.

It is more that they are still sacred and still worshipped beings thus the grounds is far more rocky than the western dragon, which is basically just a monster. I want innovation, but also the classic flavour. I also want the carp that turns into a dragon as I like the determination those guys...

given most giants are intergreat badly, I assume most people don't. he was making a space adventure about the hero of a thousand faces. also a galaxy being very big is much easier to fit things into what with the multiple planets.

I want them accurate to the stories I like those lung and ryu

I mean something to lean into for fleshing out the details of Goliath both what matters to them collectively and how to fit them into a world if you are drawing a blank.

there is a grand difference between something functioning and being well designed.

I am well aware of the character archetype however, a solid definition of what the goliath is about beyond the big guy is what I seek. A default to build on or subvert or ignore,e so I am not looking at blank paper when making one.

True, but it is more part of their DNA that they tend to be both deeply strange and somewhat horrific. and is more the ball park area to aim for the playerable aberration, as you want to be somewhat monstrous and strange there.

then try defining what you think it is then? we have not established if less works just that the game could function, is such a state.