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Just to clarify. When you say cast, you mean the characters in the play and not the actors playing the characters? So, you have the cast (as in the characters in the play) and the setting. But, you don't have any plot yet. And, typically, cast definitions are pretty sparse - Name (so and...

See, this is where everyone is getting it wrong. I'm NOT CRITICIZING. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the DM generating the content. That's perfectly fine. Of course it is. I am, in no way, claiming that this is a bad thing. I am saying, though, that it is story telling.

And, to be fair, if that's where it stopped, I'd have no problems. I totally agree that this is what a sandbox is. What I'm disagreeing with is all this other stuff that's being tagged on like "logical consequences" and "living world" and the complete rejection of just how much power and...

Good grief. Attacking? How am I attacking? In what way have I denigrated anyone or anything? The idea of "emergent play" is generally used to talk about how sandbox play doesn't have story. That the story emerges from play. Right? So, in what way do I not understand it? Have I somehow...

Emergent play is not possible when one single person at the table is in control of 99% of everything. There is no space to emerge.

Sorry, misspoke. Lore=story. My bad.

Wait what? I was asked a question and I answered the question. Do I consider a timeline a story? Yup, I do. The troll(?) in the glacier encounter? No, I wouldn't call that a story since there's no conflict there. But, I imagine, that the conflict is pretty inherent. Hungry trolls live...

Of course the language is clear to you. You're the one getting to define all the terms and then shoot down any terminology that might call into question your assumptions. Hey, I'd love to be able to do that too. You get to claim that you're doing something that is different. You're...

Sorry, but that timeline is 100% a story. It's the barebones story of the history of the land. Referee=story teller. Again, obfuscation and trying to mystify the process. Call it what it is. You,me, and every single person who sits behind a DM's screen is a story teller.

Ok. Let's walk through this. Who created the caravan route? Who creates the caravans that ply this route? Who created the bandits on this route? Who decided that the bandits are attacking caravans on this route? EVERY single element is created by the DM. Plot, setting and character...

Lore IS plot. There is no difference here.

None. A GM is always a story teller. I just don't understand the resistance to calling what we do as DM/GM's story telling. Well, that's not true. I do understand. It's an attempt to try to differentiate different play styles by claiming differences that don't actually exist. To me...

This is what is so frustrating about these conversations. Please stop rewriting the example. I wasn't talking about a random encounter. I was talking about the DM having a group of bandits in the area attacking a caravan.

And yet you use the quote - If everything is X, then nothing is. So, you're using it without understanding that the whole point was it was NOT TRUE. There's a reason that the line comes from the villain of the story. Of course, that hasn't stopped geek circles from misusing the quote for...

But, now you're changing the examples. I agree, "My car is parked in the driveway" isn't really story telling since there is no plot there. "My car is parked in the driveway and is on fire" is perhaps getting closer. :D "My car is parked in the driveway and is on fire while surrounded by...

That is 100% not true. You know, with a fair degree of certainty, what will happen when the players interact with those caravan raiders. Or, at the very least, you have a couple of pretty good ideas. This idea that the DM is somehow wandering completely blind to possibility and is constantly...

Oh wow, quoting Incredibles and not understanding the meaning of the quote. Sorry, story has a pretty simple definition - plot, character, setting. That's a story. Six words is a story. So, yes, when you have bandits raiding caravans arriving at the location where your PC's are, that's a...

So, in what way, when you describe the world first - events that are going on, history, conflicts - is that not telling a story? This is what I just can't wrap my head around. How can you claim that this isn't a story? You have every single element of a story except the conclusion. Which...

No. It is not. That is a very specific definition created by a certain crowd in order to draw lines between what they do and what other people do that don't actually exist. Yes, it does. If you have stuff prepped, then you are telling a story. You might be telling a story in collaboration...

I guess, at the end of the day, this is why we will not agree. You have created a setting, characters and plot (NPC X has Y motivations and Z will occur unless the PC's do something to change that) is, to me, acting like a story teller. Not knowing the conclusion of a story does not make one...