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The other part was stealthy and they missed their perception check. Gygax is irrelevant to the 5e rules you are talking about. Personally, I agree with Gygax and think the 5e surprise rules are deficient, but they are what we have currently. They missed the other party because the other party...

What I am saying is that if you have 10 people with similar dispositions to the tackler, not all of them will do it. The tackle is not in any way inevitable. It happened that time, but might not happen the next time even with the same person seeing a second punch.

They're surprised because the other side was trying to be stealthy and surprise them. Nothing gets retrofitted. They snuck up. You failed to see them. Surprise!

Sure, if you take it out of context and ignore all the things the players did to drive it to that point and make the decision to pick the lock. DM reaction to players driving things =/= DM driven.

You're looking at that really backwards. The vast majority of group checks are not 4 or 5 chances to fail. It's 4 or 5 chances to succeed, since all you need is one of them to succeed at most things and then they all succeed. One person finds the secret door. That's a success. One person...

I've never had that many consecutive rolls. I can't think of more than three off the top of my head, and that's rare. My players do what they can to get stuff done without needing to roll, which is as it should be. Not really. Even three rolls is rare enough that this is not a concern. And...

Of course. That's not what is being argued, though. What's being argued is that it drops to near 0, which is bupkis. There is no punishment. As I explained earlier, there's lots that players can do to reduce the number of checks. Often to 0 if they really try. In the scenario here where...

And you are wrong. My players succeed far more often than they fail. You still fail to account for things like class abilities, advantage, magic that enhances, but not bypasses(guidance), other PCs helping, what the DCs might be, and more.

That's one of the three examples I gave for that exact situation. And you're assuming "pretty much zero" without knowing the bonuses of the rogue and the DCs of the checks. Whether there are special abilities in play. Advantage from inspiration. And more. Not a very good assumption to make...

Given that for the entirety of my time playing RPGs I've been in games where success wasn't 100%, I never realized that I(or my players when I DM) hadn't ever succeeded at anything. Here I thought success happened far more often than failure. :unsure:

The DM did not drive the PC to go to that location. He did not drive the PC to try and open the lock. The drive was entirely from the player. The DM deciding whether or not someone is there to hear the attempt is the DM REACTING to the player's drive, not driving anything himself.

No it isn't. Those do not model reality. They are closer than D&D, but to really model a real combat, each person would have to be able to assess every other person and adjust what they are going to do in response, which then means that everyone can start adjusting to that. And on and on...

To be a sufficient condition, it must guarantee that what follows WILL happen. Punching someone does not guarantee that you will be tackled. Just because the tackle happens, doesn't mean that it was guaranteed to happen by the punch. If I roll a d6, it is not guaranteed that a 5 will result...

No. The only confusion is yours. I informed you a few posts up what he meant by that, and he liked my post indicating that I was correct. I suggest you follow the chain up until you see it, because this repeated fixation on @pemerton's game is starting to feel disingenuous.

Get off of his game. We aren't talking about his game. We are discussing the difference in playstyles. In yours you don't know. In ours we do.

Wrong post

I've answered this twice now and you'll get to those posts shortly I think. :P

YOU don't know. WE know. If the guard would hear a singing failure, he also hears a singing success. He is in the same spot. The song is at the same volume. His perception is the same for both. We don't have guards who have their ears closed if the roll to sing was a success, or who are...