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I mean it's pretty simple in my mind; there is a belief that Ranger should be good at doing high damage.

Survival could be a good candidate in the right game already, it could be a good candidate in most games if it got the right support, was given appropriate weight. Which it somewhat lacks. It's a bit nebulous. Survival being made a better proficiency + Ranger getting some more freedom with...

I mean. We're talking about building out Ranger's levelling table. Why can't Ranger be given enough Expertise? I gave them 2 at 4th level, another 2 at 8th level. You could say "Survival is a somewhat nebulous skill, poorly conveyed by the game/given insubstantial weight for what it should...

I can absolutely understand having issues with Ranger's spells being just the wrong flavour or whatever, but. I think kneecapping their ability to utilize spells in combat at all is lame.

I would say that's basically fine. Sorta wish the scaling was different, that it started at something better than a D4, and that it wasn't single target, but. Y'know. Decent.

I almost feel like I'm speaking the wrong language. I just don't see the problem, really. I don't see how what currently exists is inadequate for creating an at least acceptable situation. The game has skill checks, conditions, and situations that can be overcome with a class toolkit. There is...

I agree! But I don't think they have to be the only tracker or forager. I don't think they have to hinge off of mechanics that only exist for them. Skill checks exist, they can handily be the best/most consistent at those skill checks, and the other relevant stuff besides.

I think having early Expertise is a mechanically and thematically nice fit for Ranger, but they still need something to do in combat. Ranger's special du jour has consistently been some flavour of "additional damage on attacks", and I think that can be acted upon better by leaving Hunter's Mark...

I mean. I guess it depends what you mean by "doesn't work". Like I said, I liked Revised Ranger. It just didn't go as far as I wanted. There are some features that are along the right lines in this rendition, but it doesn't go as far as I want (and in fact has regressed in several aspects). I...

The exploration thing is talked about a lot, I personally think just giving Ranger easy and early access to tools you'd consider within that sorta avenue (the additional movement speeds/other movement buffs, Survival/Perception/other skill expertise, heightened/exotic senses, combat bonuses for...

I'm sure it doesn't need to be said, but. Right or wrong, a lot of people care about damage. It's fun to roll dice, it's good to feel tangibly useful, it sucks to feel hopelessly outclassed by your peers. I think Ranger should do combat well, I'd consider it as important as the survivalist...

But these options already exist without being the only option for Rangers. You don't have to make them good at one thing to the detriment of the other. It sounds genuinely interminable to me. The thing is, Hunter's Mark as a class feature isn't like Rage. It's not something that you can look...

Play it when we want to and don't worry when we don't! I feel like we're further from a standard Ranger that just meets "good enough" territory than we were before. I think the closest we got was 2020, between Revised and the OCFs UA. WOTC's offerings have gotten palpably worse since then.

You would never say this about any other casting class, what's so special about Ranger that they shouldn't be casting spells in combat? Beyond the fact that, ideally their buffing is done before combat starts, but considering Hunter's Mark is where the conversation begins and ends, that's a...

Laughing at it? (I should clarify; this is for 5E. I don't particularly care about 2024 beyond acknowledging the failures in design and salvaging the useful parts. That bit from Hunter was a decent idea. And I've gratefully accepted it!)

For that prospect to be actually attractive, you have to be getting something else from pivoting to Ranger that's worthwhile. And you're just, kinda not.

Got me there. (I am actually really happy with my homebrew Ranger so far though, just tinkering with level 14 currently.)

You are correct, this is absolutely a thing you could do if you wanted to use that version of Ranger. But I do not wish to do that, because it sucks.

Correct! I still think it's lame. You're still jumping through hoops for a few pips of bonus damage however you slice it. These were steps in the right direction, but they consistently cannot stick the landing. Things like movement options, HP options, visibility options, these are things...

I mean, could do both? That's what I did/am in the process of doing. I personally made Hunter's Mark add Force damage equal to your spell modifier on weapon attacks against marked target(s), and you also learn the immunities, resistances and vulnerabilities of the marked targets. And also, uh...