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I think 5e is pretty clear in describing its Tiers of Play... from the 5e DMG... As characters grow in power, their ability to change the world around them grows with them. It helps to think ahead when creating your campaign to account for this change. As the characters make a greater impact...

You addressed and quoted me... I believe some posters have asked about houserules or solutions...but that wasn't the discussion I was having.

We are discussing official D&D and whether play of it should or shouldn't include mundane threats being major obstacles for 5th level or higher characters. Not sure how houserules relate to this except so far as anyone who wants to can houseful them to be in D&D.

No the assertion was that they are trivially easy to overcome or circumvent... and they shouldn't be. But they always have been... even the bounded accuracy goblin that can still hit you at 5th level is trivially easy to overcome at 5th level.

You want proof of a negative? Ok the fact that the rules and spells to trivialize these things after 5th level exist kind of supports my point.

Well then perhaps you and @Lanefan should find a system (or system add on) that better represents your world.

The mechanics say otherwise and the game is better for it.

What setting? The default of D&D even in the novels of 2e was never this.

I think him acting human is what makes him relatable... not catching a cold. That just makes me go huh? How does this demigod hero thing work again?

But my argument isn't for impenetrable plot armour... its for moving past trivial, mundane challenges to more appropriate ones for what a character is capable of. There's a reason you go from it being hard fighting a few goblins at 1st level to being able to take on a dragon at 5th level... im...

Can you explain this? Its like claiming having Hercules catch a disease and die from the swamp he fought the hydra in would somehow ground him in Mythic Greece better. I just don't get it.

Necroscope is what I read as well... I'll have to look into Titus Crowe.

Not even close to what I asked but continue to try and disparage the question as opposed to addressing it. Only he specifically calls out saving throws as encompassing skill but also luck, magical protections, quirks of fate and supernatural aid... so not just a representation of skill but...

Well then I'll assume you aren't arguing for mundane threats being more dangerous or even just as dangerous as a fire/poison/lightning/frost/etc breathing 15 ft long flying lizard that can cast magic.

Again... we have heroes able to fell dragons and survive deadly traps, who regularly enter hostile environs for pay and survive because of divine protection, luck and stamina (hit points and saving throws)... but who can also be felled by the flu... or who are unable to catch or figure out...

I think the premise of... being an adventurer in D&D and having survived adventuring into the 2nd tier should implicitly imply the basic knowledge to survive most mundane dangers of travel. And just to be clear, I'm not saying after 5th level a hero shouldn't be able to catch a disease... im...

If what you are saying about Gygax is true... why do ever growing hit points exist in older editions? Why do Saving Throws for situations that would kill a normal person? Aren't these forms of plot/protagonist armor? I don't think it's as clear cut as you are presenting it...

Though admittedly it has been a while since I've read his books. I remember enjoying Brian Lumley when I was younger.

Going with Sigil.

Wow, blocked by the OP for disagreeing....