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  1. Imaro

    A Question Of Agency?

    Well that could also happen if the GM in BitD decides no roll is necessary so again whether it's decided on the fly or pre-planned... it's still a GM/DM call insofar as agency is concerned.
  2. Imaro

    A Question Of Agency?

    I'm familiar with the setting I've played BitD a couple of years ago as a one shot. You right here have given 3 different possibilities... now let's add to that it could have been guards in the estate that walked in on the character as he was trying to attune to the portrait, perhaps attuning...
  3. Imaro

    A Question Of Agency?

    But it was still the GM who decided a roll was possible...
  4. Imaro

    A Question Of Agency?

    Yes but even here they are choosing to engage with it. In both situations there is a choice to engage. That is agency, especially if we are agreeing that types of agency are either irrelevant or don't exist. But this is just setting goals and even in an adventure path, once the players have...
  5. Imaro

    A Question Of Agency?

    I just want to be clear... I'm not arguing that the steps of play didn't make logical sense. I'm asking whether the player in that moment had sufficient information to weigh what he would get from delivering the portrait to his friend vs. the consequences he would suffer for failing...to...
  6. Imaro

    A Question Of Agency?

    @AbdulAlhazred I have no issues with your analyzation of the game above, In fact it pretty much aligns with how I am reading what happened as well. My issue is with 2 things specifically, the claim that the outcome for failure was foreshadowed to the point that the player knew his risk vs his...
  7. Imaro

    A Question Of Agency?

    The other thing I find kind of dissonant about BitD is that it claims that players Maybe there's just something I'm not getting... again this doesn't seem different from D&D to me. Yes the consequences were based on the character failing a roll but honestly, from the moment you started...
  8. Imaro

    A Question Of Agency?

    Yes... very much like D&D. Also IMO... the player didn't drive the whole thing and honestly from that reading it wasn't really about what he wanted it to be about. The player seemed to want to find something interesting and magical (focused on the portrait) that he could take back as a gift...
  9. Imaro

    A Question Of Agency?

    Nope it's like checking to see if an ancient sword of alien make found in an illithid lair is magical and because my roll to see if it's magical failed... it's actually sentient and reaches out with magical psychic powers and feeds on my mind... Yeah I guess being in an illithid lair and it...
  10. Imaro

    A Question Of Agency?

    Wait so you feel in this example that you telegraphed enough that the player could come to the conclusion that the consequences for a failure to examine and appraise that portrait was a magical gotcha trap? Seriously how was this any different than a magical D&D trap from a failed perception...
  11. Imaro

    A Question Of Agency?

    Doesn't matter if you personally find it hard to say...it gives a pre-scripted response to my input. Yes you expressed how you felt about there only being one type of agency earlier in the thread and yet here we are with meaningful choice that can be acted upon and because it has a pre-scripted...
  12. Imaro

    A Question Of Agency?

    But the adventure is responding... again whether pre-scripted or not it is a specific response to my actions. And my choice is whether I do or don't play that piety up or rather I go in a different direction with my characterization which may or may not have different results. As long as...
  13. Imaro

    A Question Of Agency?

    Is someone arguing it is the only form of player agency? I'm certainly not... but I also believe it can easily be a type of player agency... It is false or true totally dependent upon the game being played, the DM/GM running it and numerous other factors. That's the problem with blanket...
  14. Imaro

    A Question Of Agency?

    I'm saying read the DMG.... plain and simple. I don't run published adventures and yes since the business side is the major concern with published adventures here ease of use, page count, misunderstandings, etc. could easily take precedence over fully utilizing the rules and advice that was...
  15. Imaro

    A Question Of Agency?

    I'm not constructing an entire scenario here just a quick example so you may need to extrapolate certain things... but yes it would probably be possible to learn the Moon tribe worships... surprise, surprise... the Moon goddess and thus I make the choice to play up my piety. I made the choice...
  16. Imaro

    A Question Of Agency?

    I don't think you're disagreeing with me. I think your citing more examples of user error vs system issues...not sure what that proves. If I can show people running BitD or Fate incorrectly, does that really say anything about those systems?
  17. Imaro

    A Question Of Agency?

    Again the assumption is that the scene events happen the same way... that's the incorrect assumption. If I play my character as an extremely pious follower of the Moon goddess when interacting with the chieftain of the Moon Tribe Drow and the adventure has it noted that a character who shows...
  18. Imaro

    A Question Of Agency?

    Doesn't whether the PC's personality and expression change the game state really determine that? In a game where charming someone vs intimidating someone vs appealing to their intellect are differentiated in how they affect NPC's ones personality and expression could have very meaningful...
  19. Imaro

    A Question Of Agency?

    You're assuming the only thing that matters is the ending as opposed to the path that leads you there. In other words even if the campaign's ending is set, the road to it isn't necessarily set in stone and can be changed by something as simple as characterization.
  20. Imaro

    A Question Of Agency?

    I'm assuming the GM is following the rules and advice in the DMG...which I noted below what you quoted. I don't think I'm arguing against the DM deciding success, auto-failure or uncertainty. Of course I don't find that decision point any different then say a game like BitD where you only ask...
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