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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Nifft" data-source="post: 3389455" data-attributes="member: 6562">Clr 10 / Wiz 10 sucks, and you know it. No-one would play that if they cared about their character's effectiveness.As to the others, the problem is that the price for MT is all up front. You pay for X levels of Cleric casting with exactly -3 levels of Wizard casting. If we agree that Cleric 3 / Wizard 3 / MT 10 is balanced -- and I think it's generally accepted that it's reasonable -- then adding more MT must have additional cost.If you think that Clr 3 / Wiz 3 / MT 10 is terribly weak, we should talk about that.IMC, Clerics get only Light armor and one Domain. They're still really strong, and people still play them. "Battle-Cleric" means you also took one level of Fighter or Barbarian. From what I've seen in monster books, Turn Undead becomes worthless around level 10, thanks to how HD increase more rapidly than CR (and how Turn Resistance starts cropping up).IMC, Wizards mostly ignore their Familiar ability. They don't want to risk the XP drain. Both current Wizards also have prestige classes (so clearly they prefer PrC abilities over bonus Feats).Basically, in both cases, their major class ability is spellcasting. That's how it looks on paper, and that's how it plays out. There is more to the class than spellcasting, but not much. Spellcasting is 90% of the class, including tons of hidden class features.Cheers, -- N</blockquote>