1st level forever: an experiment

[Particle_Man]

What do you think of this as a possible "Grim and Gritty" experiment? Just don't give experience points, ever, when running a D&D game (in any of its incarnations). The characters remain 1st level for their entire lives. Suddenly kobolds remain dangerous, as do 20' pits. I haven't tried this myself yet, but have thought about it and was wondering if anyone else had any thoughts, besides the nonuseful "Your idea Suxxors!".

 

[Zappo]

Well, it would make the game grim'n'gritty, that's sure. It would also, however, make it a lot simpler, and not only in the good way. No character progression is just as unrealistic as 17th level fighters. As is the idea that characters cannot improve, ever - and I'm not talking about combat, either. If my character decides to take up blacksmithing, I expect him to eventually get good at it.

A very slow advancement could work better. You could give XP in such a way that most characters will reach 5th level by the time a normal campaign has reached 20th.

This, however, introduces the problem of insufficient granularity: it makes the level jump a much higher cliff. Having a character suddenly double in power feels weird.

To solve that, you could split each level into several steps. Every character gets one HP every now and then, one point of BAB, one point of one saving throw, one skill point, one special ability (maybe after an appropriate quest), until they get the full level. It would take a bit of tweaking, but it could work.

If you let the PCs choose what to get, you've basically got point-based D&D.

 

[JoeBlank]

If you are somewhat "grim and gritty" then the fear of death must be present. In general, any 1st level character can die in any fight, with one lucky hit from just about any enemy. Characters survive 1st level by being very luck or minimizing the risks.

But if they stay 1st level forever then sooner or later the odds will catch up, so I would think in your proposed campaign you would have a fair amount of PC turnover. If that is cool with you and your players, then go for it. Of course, you have the added bonus that new PCs will always the same level as the living PCs, so no worries with level disparity.

 

[Breakdaddy]

I might implement a system similar to the one discussed above, making XP much harder to come by. For Grim N' Gritty I would also implement a harsh critical hit system a la Warhammer FRP. This would keep the game deadly while still allowing for a (consistent) reward system for the players. If you want to keep them level 1 instead per your idea, you might consider giving them max HP for that level and every 4 levels (where they would have earned level 4 anyhow, since they wont actually level) automatically pumping their attribute point into CON (maybe even 2 for a net gain of 1 HP every 4 levels). This way XP is still awarded and tangible consistent rewards are still perceived by the PCs, even if they will not actually level.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

At least the the poor schlubs get to 3rd level. C'mon, man!

Levels 1-3 exp is normal
Levels 4-15 divide all exp rewards by 3
Levels 16-20 exp is normal

You'll want to speed things up at the end as a way to build suspense for the final encounter.

Remember: The D&D exp system is designed to have people level up every 13.5 combat encounters that are scaled for their level. Figure out how many combats you have per session before tweaking the exp.

Personally, I'd also figure out how long your average campaign lasts. If you and the guys restart every college semester, like we used to do, your campaign should be scaled for three months with the big encounter at the end.

Happy gaming!

 

[Psychic Warrior]

I would loathe and promptly quit a game where my character could never improve beyond their starting point. I would never dream of running something like that.

I think you are confusing 'grim n' gritty' with just plain old grim.

For Ken Hood's grim and gritty rules see here (it's about 1/2 way down the page).

 

[philreed]

I think advancement is a big part of the game and eliminating it will chase players away. Reducing XP awards would work fine, as would the DM just saying "you're all level 2 now" at the moment he feels is appropriate.

 

[Narfellus]

I don't think you would want to leave characters at 1st level indefinitely. Improving skills is part of the fun. Dramtically slowed progression is probably a better solution.

 

[painandgreed]

If you want to make things deadly I'd keep levels and exp but simply but out HP. Perhaps only give out 1 HP per level above 1st. Lets them advance and increase in power but still keeps things deadly to the point PCs are going to have to think before acting or get killed. I'd perhaps combine this with the damage reduction armor and defensive bonus from Unearthed Arcana though.

If you just want to keep things low level and slow progress, just change the Xp scales to double the previous level. 1000 to get to 2nd. 3000 to get to 3rd. 7k to get to 4th. 15k to get to 5th. etc. Keeps levels 1-3 in line pretty well but scales up rapidly for few high levels in a campaign.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

I think the other issue with this is that you could never really increase the challenges the party actually faces. I think it would get dull fighting CR1, 2 maybe 3 creatures over and over, or always running away from anything stronger. Anything much higher level would surely wipe out the party consistently.

Also, what becomes the incentive for a player to keep the character alive? "Oh, look, he's dead. Oh well, I'll roll up another 1st level character." In a grim and gritty game it seems to me getting a character to 4th level is a real achievement and one worth working hard to keep going.