D&D 5E (2024) +3 Vicious Weapon/Flametongue?

I’m currently mulling over some homebrew solutions on how to give players that satisfying feeling of finding cool, high-tier loot without completely breaking 5e’s Bounded Accuracy over a long campaign. I want items to feel impactful, but I also want to avoid the "static high AC" problem where monsters can no longer hit the PCs.

I’m currently considering some options for a hybrid setup.

1: Decoupling "+" Bonuses from the d20 Roll​

Magic bonuses affect everything except the actual d20 roll to hit or defend.
  • Weapons (+1 to +3): The bonus applies strictly to damage, not to the attack roll. A +3 Longsword doesn't alter the fundamental probability of hitting the target, but rolling 1d8 + STR + 3 on a successful hit still feels great for the player.
  • Armor and Shields (+1 to +3): Instead of granting extra AC, the bonus is converted directly into Damage Reduction (DR). A piece of +2 Chain Mail provides its standard base AC, but reduces all incoming physical damage (or all damage) by 2 points per hit. It solves the high-AC breaker. Characters still get hit at a reasonable, scalable rate, meaning lower-CR monsters can still contribute to a fight. However, the player still feels like an absolute tank because minor attacks just glance off their DR.

Option 2: No Stacking​

When keeping +1/+2/+3 bonuses to AC and attack rolls, I need a counterweight to prevent math inflation while staying within a 5e framework.
  • Strict Typing & Attunement Limits: In PF1, you had Enhancement, Deflection, and Natural Armor bonuses that didn't stack within the same category. 5e often ignores this, which is how you end up with Bracers of Defense, a Ring of Protection, and a Cloak of Protection stacking to absurd heights. I'm considering a hard rule: you can only benefit from a single magic bonus to your AC at any given time, regardless of the source. Rare cases that stack requires attunment.

Option 3: Replacing Flat Bonuses with "Spendable Currency"​

Instead of flat, permanent bonuses, magic items could offer a limited resource pool used during combat.
  • Magic Dice Pools: A +2 Shield wouldn’t grant a static +2 AC. Instead, it contains 2 "Defense Dice" (like d4s or d6s, could scale for more powerful items) per short rest. When the character is hit, they can roll a die and add the result to their AC as a Reaction. It gives the player the exact same high-impact feeling of using cool loot, but because it requires resource management (a Reaction and a limited pool), the statistical average of the system stays intact over a full adventuring day. It prevents the passive, un-hittable AC wall.

Option 4: Horizontal Progression via Pathfinder-Style Qualities​

Instead of making items vertically stronger (+1, +2, +3), make them broader. That way I could lift the weapon and armor quality systems straight from PF1 (Flaming, Keen, Fortification, Spell Resistance) but adapting them to a simpler structure.
Instead of handing out a flat +2 sword, I’d award a sword with 2 quality points:
  • 1-Point Qualities: Adds 1d6 elemental damage (Fire/Cold), emits light, or allows a free skill check with Advantage once per day.
  • 2-Point Qualities: Ignores damage resistance, scores a critical hit on a 19-20 (Keen), or grants a single use of a Battle Master Maneuver per combat.
  • For Armor: Qualities like Light Fortification (25% chance to ignore extra critical hit damage), elemental resistance, or the ability to use a Reaction to step back 5 feet when an enemy misses an attack.
I was also thinking of using the pricing system from PF1, but halve bonuses. A +1 item gives zero bonus (but is magical), a +2 gives +1 etc. Think of something to reach +3 (maybe epic pricing.) Mulling over having the qualities (flaming etc.) cost double "plusses". But I'd have a pretty robust pricing system to start from.

Beauty - all the options can be combined and mixed. Thoughts?
I like option 1 for simplicity and option 4 for how interesting the possibilities are. The only criticism I have of option 1 is that removing the + from accuracy makes the +x weapons way weaker than their rarity suggests. Maybe boost the + to damage to compensate? I'm thinking you could double the bonus (+1 becomes +2, +2 becomes +4, +3 becomes +6) without a problem once you remove the accuracy boost. Unfortunately the 5.5e Vicious Weapon will still outclass the +3 weapon by 1 point on average (and the +2 weapon by 3 points), where before the accuracy of the +x weapons made the decision a bit more nuanced (see my previous post). It might make sense to nerf the Vicious Weapon to 1d6 with an additional bonus on crit.

For option 1 on armor, I REALLY like the damage reduction idea. I think it should probably apply to either all damage or all damage from attacks, with damage type not being considered. Having it apply to all damage indiscriminately would actually make a lot of sense thematically, and help make up for 5e/5.5e's lack of ability to boost non-proficient saves outside of having a Paladin in the party.

Option 3 seems interesting as well, but I'd use either a reaction OR a limited pool rather than both.
 

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1: Decoupling "+" Bonuses from the d20 Roll​

Magic bonuses affect everything except the actual d20 roll to hit or defend.
  • Weapons (+1 to +3): The bonus applies strictly to damage, not to the attack roll. A +3 Longsword doesn't alter the fundamental probability of hitting the target, but rolling 1d8 + STR + 3 on a successful hit still feels great for the player.
  • Armor and Shields (+1 to +3): Instead of granting extra AC, the bonus is converted directly into Damage Reduction (DR). A piece of +2 Chain Mail provides its standard base AC, but reduces all incoming physical damage (or all damage) by 2 points per hit. It solves the high-AC breaker. Characters still get hit at a reasonable, scalable rate, meaning lower-CR monsters can still contribute to a fight. However, the player still feels like an absolute tank because minor attacks just glance off their DR.

I always have problems with DR as armor,

IE: DR3 is great vs bunch of goblins, but it does next to nothing vs giants hammer attack.
but +1 AC works against all, sure the higher your AC vs attack roll is, +1 is better.

So it needs to be some minimal damage dealt(this minumum damage can be reduced by Heavy armor mastery if you have it)

Common armor: DR 1
Uncommon: DR 3
Rare: DR 6
Very rare: DR 9
Legendary: DR 12

if attacks hits you, armor cannot reduce damage below minimal possible damage of attack. or any damage source.

so if barbarian hits you with a greatsword while raging, 2d6+6 damage, minimum damage is 8, no matter how high your armor damage reduction.

even if it works against spell it would be good, scorching ray or magic missile will do 2 damage minimum per instance, no matter the DR of the armor.

and goblins that attack you for 1d8+1 damage will again deal 2 damage minimum.
 

Weird that they removed the one-hour duration in the current version. Does make it a nice drop as treasure, though - instead of giving the party a +3 weapon that turns out not to work with anyone's build, you effectively just give them whatever +3 weapon they want, subject to picking up a mundane one in town if they don't have one handy.
It not having a duration completely changes the item - its value and how it's used.

It also creates strange "lore" questions. Why create this item, and not say, use it immediately to have the desired +3 weapon?
 

Pop quiz,

Let's say you're out of attunement slots and can pick one of the following as your main weapon: +3, OR Vicious (both of which are attunement-free). Which one do you take?

P.S.: Don't let the under-current of anti-white-room analysis get to you. If there ever was a question that could benefit from theory crafting, this is one! Go all hog my fellow pro/amateur statisticians :ROFLMAO: :geek:
in the 3.x/pathfinder 1e days, the general wisdom was that a +1d6 damage was roughly equivalent to a +1 bonus. So a +2d6 weapon is the "same" as a +2 weapon.

I'm not sure if this still holds in 5e, given that the proportion of attacks that hit is higher. EDIT: it would be more valuable in 5.0 vs 5.5, because in 5.0 you had those -5 to hit +10 dmg feats, and those really could use those + to hit.
 

It not having a duration completely changes the item - its value and how it's used.

It also creates strange "lore" questions. Why create this item, and not say, use it immediately to have the desired +3 weapon?
logistics.

a mage does not need to bother with thinking of "what kind of weapon I need to enchant this month".

Just make a stockpile of +X oils and sell them to adventurers.
 

Pop quiz,

Let's say you're out of attunement slots and can pick one of the following as your main weapon: +3, OR Vicious (both of which are attunement-free). Which one do you take?

P.S.: Don't let the under-current of anti-white-room analysis get to you. If there ever was a question that could benefit from theory crafting, this is one! Go all hog my fellow pro/amateur statisticians :ROFLMAO: :geek:

I would take the vicious weapon.
 

I’m currently mulling over some homebrew solutions on how to give players that satisfying feeling of finding cool, high-tier loot without completely breaking 5e’s Bounded Accuracy over a long campaign. I want items to feel impactful, but I also want to avoid the "static high AC" problem where monsters can no longer hit the PCs.

I’m currently considering some options for a hybrid setup.

1: Decoupling "+" Bonuses from the d20 Roll​

Magic bonuses affect everything except the actual d20 roll to hit or defend.
  • Weapons (+1 to +3): The bonus applies strictly to damage, not to the attack roll. A +3 Longsword doesn't alter the fundamental probability of hitting the target, but rolling 1d8 + STR + 3 on a successful hit still feels great for the player.
  • Armor and Shields (+1 to +3): Instead of granting extra AC, the bonus is converted directly into Damage Reduction (DR). A piece of +2 Chain Mail provides its standard base AC, but reduces all incoming physical damage (or all damage) by 2 points per hit. It solves the high-AC breaker. Characters still get hit at a reasonable, scalable rate, meaning lower-CR monsters can still contribute to a fight. However, the player still feels like an absolute tank because minor attacks just glance off their DR.
I mean, just don't give out +X gear, or bound it to +1.

There is no magic item shop.

All magic items do stuff. As the DM this is your job.

...

Some of my "do stuff" looks like your ideas.

Common magic items are ones that can be made in this age. They are expensive to make, but it is merely a matter of coin. Rarer items are beyond the ability of the current era to produce; most states have laws about possessing them that sufficient social status can get you.

In general: weapons deal 1 extra "elemental" damage as common, 1d4 as uncommon, 1d6 as rare, 1d8 as very rare and 1d10 as legendary.
Two handed weapons deal 1d4 / 1d6 / 1d10 / 2d6 / 2d8 (except polearms, which use 1 handed weapon rules).

Weapons generally have additional properties; 1 at uncommon, 2 at rare, 3 at very rare and 4 at legendary. These tend not to all be "kill more" as we sort of actually handled that.

A common magic shield (requires attunement) is one that lets you expend a reaction to being hit or taking damage. This reaction grants +2 AC against the triggering attack (which can cause it to miss), and resistance if you take the damage. You cannot use it again until you recharge it as a magic action.

This is intended to be quite a good item; it exists as part of the balance between shield users and two-handed weapon users. It was reverse engineered from the magical ancient shields, which tend to have a similar property (+1 extra AC per tier at least) and other properties.

My "ability" boosting items do not set your ability to 19. Instead they grant a die from d4 up to d12. These boost saving throws, skill checks, and damage rolls on matching-stat-based attacks and on one damage roll on matching-stat-based spells; (the con booster instead boosts magical healing on the wearer, but no more than doubles it). They also tend to have some ribbons; belts of giant strength let you carry, throw rocks, and give resistance to the appropriate damage, for example. Ogre Power gloves let you wield 2 handed weapons in one hand (they lose the heavy property however). Etc.

So a Belt of Fire Giant Strength would grant a 1d8 MIGHT die. You add your MIGHT die to strength checks, saving throws, and damage rolls from strength-based attacks. As an action you can also throw a boulder up to 2 pounds at a range of 30/100; it deals 1d10 damage per pound plus 1d6 fire damage. Your carrying capacity is increased 5x and you gain fire resistance.

Or a more complete set:

(U) Ogre: 1d4 might, can threat 2 handed melee weapons as not-HEAVY and 1 handed.
(R) Hill Giant: 1d6 might, 3x carrying capacity, throw 1 lbs boulder 30/100 for 1d10 damage as an action.

(VR) Stone: 1d8 might, 5x carrying capacity, throw up to 2 lbs boulder 60/120 for 1d12 damage per pound as an action
(VR) Frost: 1d8 might, 5x carrying capacity, throw up 2 lbs boulders 30/100 for 1d10 damage per pound + 1d6 cold as an action, cold resist
(VR) Fire: 1d8 might, 5x carrying capacity, throw up to 2 lbs boulder 30/100 for 1d10 damage per pound + 1d6 fire as an action, fire resist

(L) Cloud: 1d10 might, 10x carrying capacity, throw up to 3 lbs boulder 30/100 for 1d10 damage per pound, invisibility/levitate/feather fall on self 1/day
(L) Storm: 1d10 might, 10x carrying capacity, throw lighting bolt 60/120 for 3d12 lighting damage as an action, fog cloud 1/day, levitate/feather fall on self 1/day, resist lighting and thunder

A strength-based character will be pretty happy with these belts, even if they no longer grant crazy +ATK bonuses.

Other items go from passive bonuses to active effects, like:

(R) Ring of Protection: As a reaction to being hit, you can make the attack miss. As a reaction to failing a saving throw, you can pass the saving throw. Once you have used a given property, you cannot use it again until noon, midnight, dawn or dusk has occurred.

(U) Cloak of Protection: As a reaction to failing a saving throw, reroll the saving throw with advantage. As a reaction to being hit, make the attacker reroll with disadvantage. Each time this results in you passing a saving throw or causing an attack to miss, gain a level of exhaustion (-1 on all d20 tests).

I'd argue these are pretty solid. In-game their description is pretty similar, but instead of a passive "modify numbers on the character" you get an active ability. It does increase tracking, but with 3 attunement items, that should be limited.
 

I

In general: weapons deal 1 extra "elemental" damage as common, 1d4 as uncommon, 1d6 as rare, 1d8 as very rare and 1d10 as legendary.
Two handed weapons deal 1d4 / 1d6 / 1d10 / 2d6 / 2d8 (except polearms, which use 1 handed weapon rules).

You note they have other abilities, which is a good thing, because the damage scaling you've shown is very mild

A boost of 1d4 to 1d6 damage is the equivalent of +1 damage, meaningfully weaker than a +1 to hit and damage that a "vanilla +" weapon would grant.
 

Get a Dragon's Wrath Weapon - cooler roleplay opportunities and becomes a +3 / +3d6 damage weapon when it is legendary (+ has other cool effects).

Ascendant Dragon's Wrath Weapon FTD (Fizban's Treasury of Dragons) p25
Generic Variant, Legendary (Requires Attunement)

This weapon is decorated with dragon heads, claws, wings, scales, or Draconic letters. When it steeps in a dragon's hoard, it absorbs the energy of the dragon's breath weapon and deals damage of that type with its special properties.

Whenever you roll a 20 on your attack roll with this weapon, each creature of your choice within 5 feet of the target takes 5 damage of the type dealt by the dragon's breath weapon.

You gain a +3 bonus to attack and damage rolls made using the weapon. On a hit, the weapon deals an extra 3d6 damage of the type dealt by the dragon's breath weapon.

As an action, you can unleash a 60-foot cone of destructive energy from the weapon. Each creature in that area must make a DC 18 Dexterity saving throw, taking 12d6 damage of the type dealt by the dragon's breath weapon on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. Once this action is used, it can't be used again until the next dawn.
 

You note they have other abilities, which is a good thing, because the damage scaling you've shown is very mild

A boost of 1d4 to 1d6 damage is the equivalent of +1 damage, meaningfully weaker than a +1 to hit and damage that a "vanilla +" weapon would grant.

The uncommon items have an additional property on top of the 1d4 damage.

So you get 1d4 damage and something else, as opposed to +1 hit/damage and nothing of baseline items.

Like a +1d4 poison damage dagger that returns to your hand at the end of the turn you throw it.

A +1d4 radiant damage bow that provides its own ammunition and creatures hit by it produce dim light in a 5' radius for a turn.

A +1d4 thunder damage hammer that deals double damage to objects

A +1d4 lighting damage flail that gives the target disadvantage on opportunity attacks for a turn.

A +1d4 necrotic damage spear that, if you reduce a target to 0 HP or score a critical hit, grants you 2d6 temporary HP.

A +1d4 fire damage sword that glows with light like a torch and grants cold resistance.
 
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