4th-level Ranged Leader

[Shin Okada]

Well, the last Friday our party's Warlord has died. Now his player is considering to create a new PC, possibly a Minotaur Monk, but not sure at this moment.


Anyway, our party will likely to lose Leader PC. So I am thinking of playing one myself (my current PC is one of 2 defenders in the party, and the party is melee heavy and most of the melee strikers are tough enough and seem to be not so starving for defender).

For a change, and for complementing the lack of long range attacks of this party, I am toying with an idea of ranged leader, possibly someone uses rage 20 powers or bow/crossbow. I am meant to make a 4th-level PC.

Laser cleric is ranged. But I have already seen many on the tables. And it does not have much (or no?) ranged 20 powers.

I know Artificer, Bard & Warlord all have ranged build. But have never actually compared their pros and cons much. Would you fellows please write up your thoughts or experiences on those ranged weapon leader builds?

 

[Riastlin]

The bard is great option for ranged leader. You can go with a cunning bard and use ranged attacks through a wand or a songbow/songblade. You get good healing (though not great) and good riders in the form of reorganizing the battlefield, granting saves, free attacks, temp HPs or extra healing, buffs and debuffs (more of the latter if I recall correctly).

You can also go with the prescient bard which uses ranged weapons (thus granting an even greater range than the cunning bard). The cool thing is that the two builds are compatible meaning you can grab a songbow and use both ranged weapon attacks and simple ranged spell attacks through your bow, allowing you to simply pick the more interesting power. Bards are also ritual casters which is nice as well.

All in all I think the bard is a very well-designed class. Heck my cunning bard even picked up a couple of melee powers because the powers were so good and so easy to hit with through songblades, etc. The only real downside to the bard is that often it will be very subtle in its contribution -- whether by debuffing an enemy, or granting an extra attack, etc. You probably will not deal a lot of damage yourself directly, but you can absolutely help your party deal a lot more damage overall -- which is pretty much the same thing.

I don't have a lot of experience with the warlord or artificer so I can't be of much help. The cool thing about the artificer though is that its main heal does not require the target to spend a surge, rather the party recharges the main heals between encounters by having anyone spend the surge.

 

[Anathos]

Shaman is also a pretty cool class. Most of their powers are "melee", but you can drop your Spirit Companion anywhere within 20 squares, making it act like it's ranged without the disadvantage of cover or prone. There's a build in the Dark Sun Campaign Setting that dismisses the companion with every attack, so you can always put it wherever you want.

 

[Herschel]

I've played a Prescient Bard some and I rather like him, but I'd build him differently if I had to do it over, I think. The biggest drawback I find is the Charisma/Wisdom stat split would tend to leave you with pathetic Fort, Reflex and possibly AC. (I don't generally like heavily armored archers.) I built it pre-Kalashtar, so I went half-elf and boosted Con while retaining my dwarf-like reflex.

I really like the look of the Skirmishing Warlord and would love to play one but I'm thinking you want other ranged attackers to make them work best. However, you can always mix powersand even build options as you see fit. I'd probably feat in to Superior Crossbow just for the +3 proficiency as Warlords generally need to hit to get their goodies.

 

[Shin Okada]

Thank you for advices.

While Bard seems to be a good class indeed (and I actually seen many good melee or melee/ranged implement bard working), I have one concern.

As I said in the first post, the party is melee-heavy. And non of the at-will powers of Bard seems to help melee combatants much. Jinx Shot is fine but enemies hit PCs more than they miss. It will be good against monsters which uses area or close powers, though.

At least, a ranged Warlord has Paint the Bull's Eye which helps both melee and ranged combatants. And Artificer has Magic Weapon, though I must go adjacent to an ally and it may nerf the "ranged leader" concept.

Hmm.. hard choice.

 

[Shin Okada]

Well, while I know Shaman is great, I do not choose that this time as there are 2 shamans in the campaigns I am DMing and another one in a campaign I am attending as a player. Also, I played a melee/ranged artificer in the past.

Now I am leaning toward either Bow/Crossbow Bard or Warlord. But as I wrote in the previous post, bard seems to be lacking good at-will powers to support melee combatants sans Guiding Strike, which is melee.

So now my no.1 candidate is Bow/Crossbow Warlord. Harrowing Swarm Style feats in MP 2 seems interesting. It adds Rattling keyword to Paint the Bull's eye, then the greater style allow me to shoot crossbow without provoking OA from the target, and some encounter powers become ranged weapon powers.

But stats distribution and choice of presence seems to be a hard choice.

I need high Str of course. As most of the Warlord powers must hit to buff/debuff, at least, I want to give my PC starting Str of 18 (after racial mod).

Then, his main At-Will Power, Paint the Bulls-Eye, relies on either Intelligence or Wisdom. But most of the Encounter Powers modified by Harrowing Swarm Captain feat are tied to Inspiring Presence and uses Cha.

Well, what kind of combination do you prefer,

For example

Human Warlord with Inspiring Presence

Str 16+2(human)+1(L4)=19
Con 13
Dex 08
Int 14+1(L4)=15
Wis 10
Cha 14

Should such a rounded-down stats distribution work?

Also, I am afraid of the choosing Inspiring Presence makes many of the Warlord encounter powers less useful as most of them are tied to Skirmishing Presence. Shall I Concentrate on Str/Int build and choose Skirmishing Presence, and give up many additional benefit for powers modified by Harrowing Swarm Captain feat?

 

[Riastlin]

I can't help you much with the warlord as I just don't have much experience with it.

As for the Bard though, keep in mind Staggering note which a) deals damage, b) pushes the target 2, and c) grants a mba before, during or after the push.

I'm not sure of your party makeup, but Staggering Note can be huge in these situations. Got a fighter in the group? Use Staggering note to give him an extra mark each round. Barbarian? He'll do great damage and have a good mba. Even rogues likely have decent mba's, etc.

Also Vicious Mockery debuffs the attacks of the target, which while not helping your fellows to hit, will help keep them up. This is particularly good to use against marked enemies since it helps keep the defender up while avoiding retribution, etc.

Finally, as you mentioned, there's Guiding Strike, which particularly for a Cunning Bard is a good second power to staggering note as you can combine it with the White Lotus Ennervation Feat to give the target -3 to AC. Your melee buddies will love that.

 

[Herschel]

Jinx Shot is great. It won't happen all teh time, it would be "broken" if it did, but if the defender has a good AC and takes Headsman's Chop feat it can be nearly awesome.

With a heavy melee group (assuming strength), go Tactical powers with the Warlord for buffs.