D&D General [5E/5.5E] Why are Teleport and Plane Shift the Same Spell Level?

[ProfessorDetective]

I look at the trio of long-range teleportation spells and see an obvious escalation of power between them.

Teleportation Circle: Reliable, but slow and limited. Requires a full round and a costed material component (50 GP of gem chalk/special ink) to cast and can only go to permanent circles you know the glyph sequence for (which you learn two of with the spell). But it will get you to that circle with no chance of mishaps.

Teleport: Less stable, but quicker and more free-form. It’s instantaneous, only has a verbal component, and can take you anywhere on the Material Plane (which could mean just your current world or ANY world in the universe or even most of the MULTIverse, depending on your definition of “Material Plane). But it’s more prone to error. You need either to be REALLY good at visualizing your destination, have an item from the destination taken in the last six months (eg: a stone, a piece of masonry, a knickknack off of a shelf, etc.), or the glyph sequence from a permanent teleportation circle at or near the destination. Otherwise, you’ll risk ending up somewhere completely off course.

Plane Shift: Powerful, but highly specialized: It’s still instantaneous, but now needs EVEN-HIGHER costed material components (250 GP tuning fork) and can only take you anywhere OTHER than the Material Plane. But it WILL get you there, as long as you have an exact location in mind. You can also aim at a permanent teleportation circle off-plane, if you know it’s glyph sequence.

The thing I find odd is that Teleport and Plane Shift are both 7th level, while Teleportation Circle is 5th Level. I feel like a caster should gain access to these spells at a steadier rate.

My solution would be to either bump Teleport down to 6th Level, so a caster gains new capabilities each spell level, or bump Plane Shift up to 8th Level, gaining those capabilities every other level.

But perhaps that would be unbalanced, somehow? What do everyone else think?

 

[Maxperson]

I don't think it makes much of a difference. Those spells are just for quick movement, so the only balance it could disrupt would be yours if travel taking time is important.

 

[Lanefan]

Not familiar enough with the 5e versions of these so I'll just ask: could some of the difference be based on how many passengers and-or how much stuff you can take with you? Also, is the tuning fork re-usable for Plane Shift - if so, you only need to buy it once.

Teleport seems to be designed as a slightly risky get-out-of-a-jam-right-now spell. The other two seem designed for non-combat reliable long-range transport, at a cost.

Allowing Teleport to jump you from world to world, while perhaps OK by RAW, seems mighty generous.

 

[ProfessorDetective]

Not familiar enough with the 5e versions of these so I'll just ask: could some of the difference be based on how many passengers and-or how much stuff you can take with you? Also, is the tuning fork re-usable for Plane Shift - if so, you only need to buy it once.

Teleport seems to be designed as a slightly risky get-out-of-a-jam-right-now spell. The other two seem designed for non-combat reliable long-range transport, at a cost.

Allowing Teleport to jump you from world to world, while perhaps OK by RAW, seems mighty generous.

Circle effectively opens a five-foot wide portal for a round (one minute). You can get any number of creatures or objects through it within that time. Teleport and Plane Shift cap at eight creatures or one creature plus a large or smaller object.

Plane Shift doesn't consume the tuning fork, but it must be worth 250 GP and you need it turned to a specific frequency for each plane. Availability is a potential bottleneck.

Circle needs 50 GP of special pigments that ARE consumed, while Teleport is only verbal, for the record.

 

[billd91]

Not familiar enough with the 5e versions of these so I'll just ask: could some of the difference be based on how many passengers and-or how much stuff you can take with you? Also, is the tuning fork re-usable for Plane Shift - if so, you only need to buy it once.

Teleport seems to be designed as a slightly risky get-out-of-a-jam-right-now spell. The other two seem designed for non-combat reliable long-range transport, at a cost.

Allowing Teleport to jump you from world to world, while perhaps OK by RAW, seems mighty generous.

Basically, 5e dials down teleport abilities compared to 1st-3rd editions.

• 5e Teleport Circle replaces the 5th level teleport spell from earlier editions - it's reliable but must be to specific permanent destinations
• 5e Teleport replaces the 7th level Teleport without Error/Greater Teleport of earlier editions - it has the normal chances of failure of earlier editions but can be reliable if you have an object from the destination.

 

[ProfessorDetective]

Basically, 5e dials down teleport abilities compared to 1st-3rd editions.

• 5e Teleport Circle replaces the 5th level teleport spell from earlier editions - it's reliable but must be to specific permanent destinations
• 5e Teleport replaces the 7th level Teleport without Error/Greater Teleport of earlier editions - it has the normal chances of failure of earlier editions but can be reliable if you have an object from the destination.

Or the destination has a permanent circle.

 

[Lazybones]

I think the component for plane shift is there as a plot device; locating an attuned tuning fork can itself be a quest.

Interesting that they removed the attack function of the spell in the 5.5e ruleset.

Personally, I'm glad that teleportation magic is difficult. It really changes the dynamic of a campaign, and if a DM isn't ready for it, it can wreak havoc. I believe in AD&D (1st/2nd edition) the current seventh-level spell was fifth level. In my homebrew world teleportation circles are rare, and getting access to them usually requires gaining the favor of a nation-state or completing a significant quest.

 

[Lanefan]

Personally, I'm glad that teleportation magic is difficult. It really changes the dynamic of a campaign, and if a DM isn't ready for it, it can wreak havoc. I believe in AD&D (1st/2nd edition) the current seventh-level spell was fifth level.

Yes it was, but...

In 1e (not sure about 2e) there was a small chance Teleport could kill you outright, if you missed by x-feet in the wrong direction - which could include up or down - and appeared inside a solid item e.g. bedrock. That's why Teleport Without Error came along. Taking this infrequent but very real hazard away is, IMO, the change that broke Teleport.

Also, the amount of gear and-or passengers you could take with you was much less.

 

[Horwath]

planeshift should just me merged into teleportation circle spell.

just the need to use higher level spell slot, will it be 6th, 7th or 8th spell slot, there can be a debate.
and it would cut down on page count.

just add to Teleport circle:
if you use 7th level spell slot or higher, you can target teleportation circle on another plane.

 

[tetrasodium]

I have a pretty solid explanation for why it's likely the case.

Back in the past the spells were
From a quick and possibly incorrect glance, both wizard & priest got planeshift as a 5th level spell in ad&d2e but the priest did not get teleport.
3.5
Teleport sor/wiz5
Plane shift clr5, Sor/wiz7
5e has both spells as 5th level & I think only wizard gets teleport.


In 3.5 there was a design shift where the clerics having planar ties through their deity &whatever that (often planar) deity stands against they specialized cleric somewhat for summoning & planar stuff & wizard more towards prime material plane stuff. That left the cleric having their teleport going from 5th level to 7th level & both were still vancian prep casters who had actually dedicate the spell slot regardless of if the spell gets cast so just preparing it was a big deal that likely got planned before the adventuring day or was a "I can cast it... tomorrow" thing the GM could do a bit of mental pre-prep for.

I think it's unlikely that 5e pulled the spell levels from ad&d2e.

When 5e came along both shifted to neovancian prep & there was a huge push to frontload everything so players could do all of the formerly high level/end game CoolThing™ stuff early in the campaign. That combo unfortunately made it so there was no longer a dedicated spell slot effectively consumed regardless of if the spell filling it was cast before the next rest and it was front loaded to a relatively low level slot. Now teleport no longer a CoolThing™ likely done as part of some memorable story to tell, it's a back pocket asspull on an average tuesday with no real efficacy cost to regularly keep ready given the number of prep slots available to a level 9 & up PC.