A box before the books!

[Giltonio_Santos]

I don't know it this is the kind of input wizards is looking for, but here is one thing I'd love to see: the boxed set coming earlier than the three core books (if we'll have three core books at all). Releasing a boxed set some years after the game has been around is not the right choice in my opinion. Let we have the boxed set as a way to know the game before diving into a complete version.

I could spend some time describing what I want from this project, but Pathfinder's Beginner Box pretty much solves the puzzle, in my opinion. Do it as part of the core release, and let us play with it before playing with the complete game, for a change of pace.

Best regards,

 

[Dragonblade]

I don't know it this is the kind of input wizards is looking for, but here is one thing I'd love to see: the boxed set coming earlier than the three core books (if we'll have three core books at all). Releasing a boxed set some years after the game has been around is not the right choice in my opinion. Let we have the boxed set as a way to know the game before diving into a complete version.

I could spend some time describing what I want from this project, but Pathfinder's Beginner Box pretty much solves the puzzle, in my opinion. Do it as part of the core release, and let us play with it before playing with the complete game, for a change of pace.

Best regards,

I don't mind the box as an option for beginners, but I prefer books. Big books with all the rules packed in ala the Pathfinder core rulebook. Thats what I want.

 

[Sanglorian]

I think a box set is a great idea, but can be improved on to make D&D feel more like a game and less like work.

One small format change that made a big difference for me is how Dungeon World uses class brochures as character sheets. You tick off the powers you want and your race, circle your name from a list or write in your own, etc.

It seems insignificant, but it changes the mood. I wanted to hand out class brochures to passers-by, because they're accessible and fun. You don't get overwhelmed by 300 pages of skills, grapple rules and cover, or what one publisher described as 4E's 'wall' of classes, powers and paragon classes.

 

[delericho]

I have long felt that the Starter Set is the single most important in-print product for the game. It absolutely should be released on the same date as the Core Rulebook, and be 100% compatible. (It can have a subset of the 'real' rules, but it shouldn't contradict them anywhere.)

In fact, ideally, the Starter Set would include a copy of the same Core Rulebook as everyone else uses. That way, when people graduate to the 'real' game, they already have the same rules as everyone else. Obviously, this approach would have the significant weakness of pushing up the cost.

 

[MoxieFu]

That's exactly what I was saying in a different thread this morning before the announcement. Non-gamers associate games with a box. They just don't immediately grok a game in the form of a book. It also needs to be an entry point version of the game that can be replayed many times. You have to be able to roll up characters. It' can't be just an introduction to the game like the ones they released for 4e and 3e. It needs to be like B/X or BECMI boxes except they need to be compatible with 5E and serve as a lead-in to it. Modules written for the Basic box need to be easily usable with the full game.

I'm not a game designer, but it seems to me that a Basic set would be easier to design and release before the full game. It's the part of the game that experienced gamers can agree upon before the complexities begin to be added in.

 

[Croesus]

I'm not a game designer, but it seems to me that a Basic set would be easier to design and release before the full game. It's the part of the game that experienced gamers can agree upon before the complexities begin to be added in.

I'll go one step further and suggest that in designing the core rules, they need to keep new players foremost in their minds. For each rule, they need to ask "Is this something that will make the game more fun for a newbie, or is it something that will cause them to put the game down and turn on their X-Box"? If the latter, then the rule isn't core. It can be optional, it can go in a supplement, it can be dropped.

If the game has a good, simple, evocative, FUN core, the designers will have plenty of opportunities to layer on all the other optional stuff that some of us want, and some of us don't.

 

[MoxieFu]

I'll go one step further and suggest that in designing the core rules, they need to keep new players foremost in their minds. For each rule, they need to ask "Is this something that will make the game more fun for a newbie, or is it something that will cause them to put the game down and turn on their X-Box"? If the latter, then the rule isn't core. It can be optional, it can go in a supplement, it can be dropped.

If the game has a good, simple, evocative, FUN core, the designers will have plenty of opportunities to layer on all the other optional stuff that some of us want, and some of us don't.

Croesus that is exactly what I was thinking. Thanks for putting it out there very clearly.

 

[Sanglorian]

In fact, ideally, the Starter Set would include a copy of the same Core Rulebook as everyone else uses. That way, when people graduate to the 'real' game, they already have the same rules as everyone else. Obviously, this approach would have the significant weakness of pushing up the cost.

It would only push up the cost if the core rules remain as long as they are now! If the game moved to a level of rules similar to that which it had in the beginning/to that which many games have today, the same core rulebook that everyone uses might only be 32 pages long.

 

[Stormonu]

Agreed. I'd like to beg WotC to come out with a boxed set BEFORE releasing the Core books.

I'm not talking like the measly fast-play rules that came with Keep on the Shadowfell, but a honest-to-goodness (at least) 1-3 level rules set that can be played on its own. Something in the 32-64 page range. With an included adventure (Keep on the Borderlands/Chaos Scar?).

 

[Wightbred]

I think a box set is a great idea, but can be improved on to make D&D feel more like a game and less like work.

One small format change that made a big difference for me is how Dungeon World uses class brochures as character sheets. You tick off the powers you want and your race, circle your name from a list or write in your own, etc.

It seems insignificant, but it changes the mood. I wanted to hand out class brochures to passers-by, because they're accessible and fun. You don't get overwhelmed by 300 pages of skills, grapple rules and cover, or what one publisher described as 4E's 'wall' of classes, powers and paragon classes.

Definitely agree. Dungeon World is a great example of how easy and clear a a D'D game can be.