A Completely Unbiased XP System

[stonehead]

I would say that it reads pretty disconnected from a lot of social interactions where terminal states like "befriend or defeat" are rare --- gaining favor with an important person, joining a faction, sabotaging a faction, influencing a court, etc. I think you could have a lot of PCs that have made important relationship changes but didn't reach a completion point, and so differences of opinion on the experience gained vs. XP granted may occur.

Maybe earning favor (or earning a favor) could work better than "befriend" an npc. Then it could reward smooth-talking the king as well as doing pro-bono heroism and quests.

It's a little less vague as it's easier to concretely determine if an npc owes you a favor than if they are your friend.

One thing that I would view as a plus, but not everyone would is that it rewards impactful interactions more. Do you want to give xp to the players if/when they spend an hour IRL getting closer with the town's beggar? If so then maybe befriend is a better phrase than earn favor. To me though, that's reminiscent of seeing a monster and attacking it for no reason other than to earn xp.

 

[Clint_L]

Yes.

Those who, in character, take the risks and actually (try to) do things should get the rewards. Those who don't, shouldn't; and if that means they fall behind I have no sympathy for them.

That just doesn't happen. Players are there to have a good time and play their characters. This has nothing to do with milestone levelling.

All these discussions of Skinnerian conditioning and DMs using XP as a means of controlling player behaviours just reinforce why I so intensely dislike XP. I don't think there's such a thing as an unbiased XP system - any XP system has values baked into it.

 

[aramis erak]

That just doesn't happen. Players are there to have a good time and play their characters. This has nothing to do with milestone levelling.

All these discussions of Skinnerian conditioning and DMs using XP as a means of controlling player behaviours just reinforce why I so intensely dislike XP.

And why I love them.

I don't think there's such a thing as an unbiased XP system - any XP system has values baked into it.

Agreed. I strongly dislike the skinnerian value of milestone as it rewards just showing up and doing minimum. It is an XP system, just a super coarse one, and it has skinnerian value all its own.

 

[Lanefan]

That just doesn't happen. Players are there to have a good time and play their characters. This has nothing to do with milestone levelling.

The bolded really depends on the players.

Further, if they play their characters to the subtle long-term detriment of other characters (consistently hanging back and letting others take the risks for them is one example of such) should they really be rewarded for that?

All these discussions of Skinnerian conditioning and DMs using XP as a means of controlling player behaviours just reinforce why I so intensely dislike XP. I don't think there's such a thing as an unbiased XP system - any XP system has values baked into it.

There may very well be no such thing as a completely unbiased xp system (though there's still avenues to lessen the bias), so let's make sure the biases that do exist are ones that we proactively want to have there.

If we want derring-do in the game, for example, then reward it!

 

[overgeeked]

If we want derring-do in the game, for example, then reward it!

Exactly. Reward the behavior you want to see in the game.

Want tomb robbers, XP for gold.

Want monster hunters, XP for dead monsters.

Want teamwork, XP for helping each other.

Want explorers, XP for hexes.

Etc.

 

[Hand of Evil]

This is a secondary system to normal EXP systems.

Have the players set their own goals for special rewards.

Just ask them to set three goals for the character for the mechanics or world they are playing in, then work with them to set up a reward that they agree on. New goals are added as they accomplish them. This gets them to invest into the game and feel involved.
Yes, it is a bit of work and note keeping.

 

[Campbell]

And why I love them.

Agreed. I strongly dislike the skinnerian value of milestone as it rewards just showing up and doing minimum. It is an XP system, just a super coarse one, and it has skinnerian value all its own.

I think milestones are fine if they are defined and known by players ahead of time so they become something to strive for. Not fine if it's mostly the GM providing rewards posthoc.

Marvel Heroic milestones are great. The way most D&D adventures do it is not great.

 

[Lanefan]

I think milestones are fine if they are defined and known by players ahead of time so they become something to strive for. Not fine if it's mostly the GM providing rewards posthoc.

Needs a careful touch, though, lest those known milestones just become a(nother) means of the GM leading the players by the nose.

 

[bsss]

Needs a careful touch, though, lest those known milestones just become a(nother) means of the GM leading the players by the nose.

Sure, but you could say the same of only rewarding XP for the behaviors you want to see. Killed the baron instead of negotiating? The baron wasn't a combat threat, no XP; Negotiated with the baron instead of killing him? The baron lied and the problem is unresolved, no XP. The DM needs to be careful with their authority either way.

 

[Paka]

Bingo XP
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