A Completely Unbiased XP System

[Lanefan]

What bias is introduced by every player choosing a goal, belief etc for their PC? Who is favoured by that?

The player who chooses the easier-to-achieve in-fiction goal etc. is favoured.

If your goal is to rebuild your family's farm and my goal is to become Emperor of Rome, you'll level up through goal achievement long before I will!

 

[Nytmare]

I could be wrong, but I've been going with "unbiased" = "favoring no one in particular."

Choosing your own XP triggers seems to favor your own character . . . unless the choice is "I get XP for accomplishing Jane's goals," or "I get XP when my character suffers."

But... everyone is choosing their own triggers? It is effectively an infinitely long list that reads "Accomplish [ X ]" over and over again. How is that biased? It's the same as your list except it also includes things like:

• Catch some fish
• Get into a fight with my parents
• Propose to Roxie
• Get an internship
• Go out for ice cream
• Pick some flowers
• Graduate from clown college
• . . .

Also included in that list are things like "Accomplish Jane's goals" and "My character suffers." Actually, I feel like that last one is on the list at least 6 or 7 times when you're playing Torchbearer.

A character's Goal is explicitly being set up to work in tandem with the rest of the party, helping everybody gain XP, a character's Belief generates a specific kind of XP when the character acts AGAINST it and proves that their Belief is flawed, and an Instinct only generates XP if it's triggered to the benefit of the group.

 

[Theory of Games]

Allowing players to choose their own X.P. rewards can lead to something just as ridiculous as "My PC gets X.P. when they pick flowers or go out for ice cream" - while playing a fantasy-adventure campaign.

X.P. rewards should be system- and genre-based to keep players focused on how the campaign should be played.

 

[Lanefan]

Allowing players to choose their own X.P. rewards can lead to something just as ridiculous as "My PC gets X.P. when they pick flowers or go out for ice cream" - while playing a fantasy-adventure campaign.

X.P. rewards should be system- and genre-based to keep players focused on how the campaign should be played.

I gave this a 'like' but personally I'd knock off the last seven words, such that it reads "XP rewards should be system- and genre-based to keep players focused."

 

[Bagpuss]

I firmly believe any XP system should encourage the behavior you want to see from your players.

So how about this?

These actions earn you XP

• Turning up each week
• Keeping notes and/or remembering NPC names.
• Knowing the rules, particularly in regards to your character.
• Being ready when it's your turn in combat.
• Paying attention when you aren't in the spotlight.
• Drawing other players into your spotlight moment.

These actions loose you XP

• Screwing over other party members (without their OOC consent).
• Screwing up the game so much the GM has to completely change direction with no notice.
• Cancelling without notice, or at least a reasonable excuse.

 

[bsss]

I gave this a 'like' but personally I'd knock off the last seven words, such that it reads "XP rewards should be system- and genre-based to keep players focused."

But without those last seven words, players might get the wrong idea that they can set their own goals, and we can't have that. We need to make up imaginary problems and imply they don't want to actually play the game they're playing, so that we can keep them in their place.

 

[Vrindlevine]

So how about this?

Well I never wanted to get past level 1 anyways!

Though at least I wouldn't lose any XP under this system.

 

[Nytmare]

Allowing players to choose their own X.P. rewards can lead to something just as ridiculous as "My PC gets X.P. when they pick flowers or go out for ice cream" - while playing a fantasy-adventure campaign.

X.P. rewards should be system- and genre-based to keep players focused on how the campaign should be played.

You don't end up with XP triggers like that because no one involved is an automaton trapped following a narrow set of abusable rules. Someone picking triggers such as these would need to justify it in the greater narrative, and should expect the game to make picking those flowers or making it to the ice cream shop a gripping, skin-of-your-teeth adventure, not just s thing you walk into the next room and accomplish.

[EDIT]

On top of that, in this system at least, you're not generating batch XP by pushing a button. Each of your triggers can, at most, only trigger once a session. Setting a Goal to "pick some flowers" means that that's what you're asking the GM and the rest of the players to make the entire session about, and you want picking those flowers to be a struggle so that you can claw a single XP out of the session.

 

[bsss]

This is a straw man.

You don't end up with XP triggers like that because no one involved is an automaton trapped following a narrow set of abusable rules. Someone picking triggers such as these would need to justify it in the greater narrative, and should expect the game to make picking those flowers or making it to the ice cream shop a gripping, skin-of-your-teeth adventure, not just s thing you walk into the next room and accomplish.

[EDIT]

On top of that, in this system at least, you're not generating batch XP by pushing a button, each of your triggers can, at most, only trigger once a session. Setting a Goal to "pick some flowers" means that that's what you're asking the GM and the rest of the players to make the entire session about, and you want picking those flowers to be a struggle so that you can claw a single XP out of the session.

Additionally, a player somehow actually having a goal of picking flowers mundanely and somehow getting that XP is going to be bored to hell with all of the weird combat stuff that has nothing to do with calm cozy flower-picking in the new level they just earned. Inside D&D, this impossible motivation might as well be meaningless XP at that point anyway. Even as an analogy the example is contrived beyond credulity.

 

[Nytmare]

Erimni, Bark Druidess

Belief - The bounty of the forest belongs to the forest alone, never to the men of town
Instinct - Whenever we rest or camp, I will attempt to create a poultice or potion.
Goal - Find the herbs needed to make a houndstooth poultice.

In a single session, Erimni can (arguably) attempt to generate 3 XP from these triggers.

Knowing Ermini's Belief, and recognizing that that line in the sand is something that Ermini's player wants to explore, the GM has tasked the party with creating a healing poultice for a shopkeeper's child. If Ermini wants to stand her ground and refuse to help, she'll get a Fate point (an easier kind of XP to gain and less powerful). If instead she dramatically plays out going against and questioning her Belief because saving an innocent child is more important to her than protecting the forest from the townsfolk's consumption and greed, she can get a Persona point (the other kind of XP, which is a little harder to get and more powerful).

She wants to find the herbs needed for the poultice, and that lets the GM know that THAT is what she wants the session to hinge on. If her party mates are working with her, they will pick Goals that align with, but don't outright copy or contradict hers. If she's the one who takes the actual action that finds the herbs, she'll get a Persona point, if she only moves towards but doesn't complete that goal, or if somebody else achieves it for her, she'll get a Fate point.

Her Instinct only generates XP if it triggers and it benefits the party. If they break for camp, her Instinct triggers, she succeeds at her (free) Alchemist test, and it can be argued that the houndstooth poultice that was made for the benefit of the group (maybe the group wants the shopkeeper as an ally) then she can get a Fate point.