A question about map scale

[kestrel_404]

I run into this too. The 6 mile hex sticks around because it is roughly the distance to the horizon, which is why it feels right at regional scale. For continent scale I have landed on 96 miles per hex - that is 4 of your 24 mile kingdom hexes across, so the grid nests and you do not have to redraw anything when you zoom in or out. On the mountain ranges feeling off: that is usually the mountains, not the hexes. The Alps are about 150 miles across, so at your 6 mile regional scale that is already 25 hexes wide. Most fantasy maps draw ranges way bigger than any real one, which reads fine in a book but breaks the math when you start measuring. At continent scale I would honestly stop counting hexes for travel and just mark journeys in days, since nobody zoomed that far out cares about exact mileage.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I think hexes-as-time can work when you have pretty limited movement options, but it starts creating problems the moment other options are available: flight, teleportation, you name it. You also can have some issue with coasts or navigable waterways of other sorts.

 

[MGibster]

What's the map being used for? Hexes on the map of Flnaess included in the 2024 DM's Guide represent 30 miles. The map covers most of the continent and provides everyone with a good layout of major cities and geographic figures as well as distance. A more detailed map is going to have a much smaller scale and it's okay if you can't fit everyhing on it.

 

[MGibster]

I think hexes-as-time can work when you have pretty limited movement options, but it starts creating problems the moment other options are available: flight, teleportation, you name it. You also can have some issue with coasts or navigable waterways of other sorts.

I think that's a problem even before you introduce flight, teleportation, or other magical means of travel. How fast we can move in real life is determined by a wide variety of factors. Am I on a maintained road or rough trail? What's the weather like? Am I mounted or on foot? How much am I carrying? How many people are with me? Are there any changes to elevation?

As my trip to Great Sand Dunes National Park & Preserve in Colorado taught me, there's a big difference between walking three miles on a nice paved street at 485 feet above sea level and doing the same thing in sand at 8,000 feet above sea level.

 

[Spectral Anomaly]

I think that what the OP is realizing is that the scales that we're used to in our fantasy media are completely out of whack with real life. Our real world is vastly larger than the worlds we read about and play in. Entire planets in most media would be about the size of our moon or smaller.

 

[Tigris]

I think hexes-as-time can work when you have pretty limited movement options, but it starts creating problems the moment other options are available: flight, teleportation, you name it. You also can have some issue with coasts or navigable waterways of other sorts.

Teleportation is no problem, its just instant. Or you can teleport "2 hours worth of travel" etc.

Flying could be a problem in theory, but if thats only high level and really fast in general, then just taking an average should be fine.

I think that's a problem even before you introduce flight, teleportation, or other magical means of travel. How fast we can move in real life is determined by a wide variety of factors. Am I on a maintained road or rough trail? What's the weather like? Am I mounted or on foot? How much am I carrying? How many people are with me? Are there any changes to elevation?

As my trip to Great Sand Dunes National Park & Preserve in Colorado taught me, there's a big difference between walking three miles on a nice paved street at 485 feet above sea level and doing the same thing in sand at 8,000 feet above sea level.

This is not a problem, this is only a problem because you think in distance, but we dont. You say here "its a difference if we walk 3 miles at X or 3 miles at Y" but we dont do 3 miles. We do "1 hour" and do not care what the distance is.


So we do it like this:

• A hex has a travel time. Travel time is always walking time.
• A hex in 3000 meter hight in sand has a time value of 4, while a hex in flat grasland on sea level has time value of 1.
• Heavy load increases travel time by 50%.
• A horse cuts travel time by 2. Where its annoying to walk for you, it will also be annoying to walk for a horse.
  • And it cannot be used i mountains and underground.
• A good wagon with several horses decreases travel time by 2.5
  • And it cannot be used in forests, mountains, swamp or underground
    • To make this simpler we could give a hex/landscape in addition to the time value, also a difficulty value and movement methods have a speed increase factor and also a max difficulty
• We NEVER EVER talk about distances, distances dont exist. If you dont use hex, then you can use abstract maps (like metro line plans) which is more realistic than having these realistic maps in "medieval" time anyway. And also there traveling a route has just a time value, no distance etc. (Maybe a difficulty).

 

[MGibster]

This is not a problem, this is only a problem because you think in distance, but we dont. You say here "its a difference if we walk 3 miles at X or 3 miles at Y" but we dont do 3 miles. We do "1 hour" and do not care what the distance is.


So we do it like this:

• A hex has a travel time. Travel time is always walking time.
• A hex in 3000 meter hight in sand has a time value of 4, while a hex in flat grasland on sea level has time value of 1.

This sounds like a colossal pain in the neck and I can scarcely imagine anyone creating let alone preferring this kind of map.

 

[SkidAce]

I mean, I agree with describing it in time, as I mentioned above.

But we got that time originally from measuring distance, so I still will measure a route on my map, THEN tell the players its takes 2 or 3 days based on method of travel.

Cutting the connection between time and space completely seems like i would have to do a lot of work to reach a system I already have.

 

[Tigris]

This sounds like a colossal pain in the neck and I can scarcely imagine anyone creating let alone preferring this kind of map.

Why? This is extremly easy to do with a hexmap. Just make a hexmap with (consistent) random colours. Different colours are different landscapes with time and difficulty.


Something like this can often be seen in boardgames.


And else a metrolike map is also easy to do.

 

[aco175]

Why? This is extremly easy to do with a hexmap. Just make a hexmap with (consistent) random colours. Different colours are different landscapes with time and difficulty.

I guess a hex map with 12 miles per hex would work. This would allow 2 hexes walking on a road or just one in rough terrain, or even half of one in a swamp. This would also work fine with 6 miles or even 4.