D&D General A Trip Back In Time: On The Utter Weirdness of Old Spells

[Pauln6]

A lot of the spells were taken from myths, legends, and fairy tales. It was never about balance, it was just about the effects in the stories.

Sticks to Snakes was a cleric spell purely because a prophet performed this miracle in the Bible.

Polymorph other was largely based on Circe turning Odysseus crew into swine.

As for illusionists, I too was very fond of shadow magic and shadow monsters.

 

[Omand]

Instead, while I was doing research I kept getting reminded of some of those truly weird spells that they had in the AD&D Player's Handbook. Now, I know that there are times when we enlightened folk of the 5e genus like to talk about some spells being a little OP and some being a little nerfed or whatever, but I am going to introduce you to some spells that are utterly, totally, and indubitably ...weird. Some of them are facially useless. Some of them are weird because of the way that they interact with other rules. Some of them are weird because they needed to pad the number of spells for a level and put in some spells that no one in their right mind would use a high level slot for.

- SNIP -

Thank you for this Snarficle, @Snarf Zagyg I have missed seeing you around.

Cheers

 

[Staffan]

I don't see it as a choice. Unless I want to tell them everything right up front about the items they find (which I most certainly do not) then I have to note what each item is and does, as do they on their treasury.

Those notes will be different, however. Mine might say "Longsword +2, Giant-slayer" where theirs might initially say "Longsword, Dwarven-made, strong magic". As more info is learned, their notes will reflect this.

The other thing we did is develop the idea of item numbers, where every item found (magical or not, if it has a value) gets its own unique number This way, when we're talking about some half-forgotten item from five or ten real-world years ago that a character still has we can be sure we're talking about the same thing; a lesson learned the hard way back in the early days!

Sure, but that requires (a) them to tell me each time they're attacking that they're using the "dwarven-made longsword with strong magic" and (b) me to remember that when they're attacking a giant they get X extra benefit. And if I was running a solo game with that one player and that was the only relevant item they had, that might work out. But I'm not. Most of the time I have 4-5 players. Assuming they have one or two items each, that's 4-10 items I need to keep track of in my head in addition to all the monsters and traps and stuff. So I'd rather tell them right away.

Now, if we're talking artifacts, that's a different story. But the number of artifacts in circulation in any one campaign is usually 0 or 1, so that's something I can keep more in mind. But for regular items? Nah. They'll figure them out.

 

[Dessert Nomad]

Sure, but that requires (a) them to tell me each time they're attacking that they're using the "dwarven-made longsword with strong magic" and (b) me to remember that when they're attacking a giant they get X extra benefit. And if I was running a solo game with that one player and that was the only relevant item they had, that might work out. But I'm not. Most of the time I have 4-5 players. Assuming they have one or two items each, that's 4-10 items I need to keep track of in my head in addition to all the monsters and traps and stuff. So I'd rather tell them right away.

I think this gets overlooked when people talk about a DM tracking something in secret. If there's just one magic item then it's easy to keep track of, but when you have 3-6 players with multiple items each that's just convoluted. And if you're in something like a West Marches campaign, you don't have the same 3-6 players each session, and multiple DMs have to keep track of all of the stuff and share it with each other.

It's a ton of work that has to go on constantly while juggling a bunch of monster stats and special rules for an encounter, and I think most people overlook that and think of it like if the game was a one on one game or a novel where there's way less extraneous information to keep track of.

 

[Lanefan]

Sure, but that requires (a) them to tell me each time they're attacking that they're using the "dwarven-made longsword with strong magic" and (b) me to remember that when they're attacking a giant they get X extra benefit.

They'll tell me they're attacking with longsword, item #883. My notes on it will be close to hand, as if they don't yet know what it does it's guaranteed we're still in the same adventure they found it; so I glance and think "Oh, yeah, that's the Giant-slayer" and proceed from there (I've been doing this long enough I remember what most of the more common items do without having to look it up).

And if I was running a solo game with that one player and that was the only relevant item they had, that might work out. But I'm not. Most of the time I have 4-5 players. Assuming they have one or two items each, that's 4-10 items I need to keep track of in my head in addition to all the monsters and traps and stuff. So I'd rather tell them right away.

Keep in mind that they'll almost always get things IDed once they're back in town, if only to get a firm value for purposes of treasury division. With rare exceptions, it's only the things they've found in the current adventure and haven't yet IDed that you have to keep track of; never mind they tend not to use unidentified items unless they have to anyway. The exception is items with charges, where they'll rarely if ever know the exact number of charges an item has even after using an ID spell.

After the item has been IDed, your notes mostly become archival backup for when (not if!) the players' records go awry.

Or you could go really nuts on it like the DM I play with has done, and put the whole lot into a dynamic database. That's a bridge too far for me, if only because my knowledge of database systems is very close to zero.

Now, if we're talking artifacts, that's a different story. But the number of artifacts in circulation in any one campaign is usually 0 or 1, so that's something I can keep more in mind. But for regular items? Nah. They'll figure them out.

Even something "regular" isn't always, though.

A sword that gives +0 to hit and +2 on damage radiates about the same magic as a straight-up +1, for example; and only you-as-DM know that this one's different. It needs an item number a) to distinguish it from the ordinary +1 you took off the same troop of soldiers, and b) so both the players and the DM know which sword we're talking about when it comes to things like Identify, field-testing, selling it, and so forth.

 

[Toe Knee Nose]

Heh. I actually remember one group that used Snakes to Sticks once. Not entirely sure why the player had it memorized, far too long ago, but, I think it was mostly because he (the player) absolutely detests snakes so when his cleric got high enough level, he had this memorized. When a bag full of snakes popped out of some chest for a trap (might have been Tomb of Horrors, again, this is a 20 some year old memory) he immediately ended the encounter. Fun times.

But, yeah, there were some seriously weird spells back then. Never minding Sticks to Snakes which at least you could actually use, but how about "Snake Charm"? Seriously? did anyone actually see this in play?

 

[Azzy]

The few times I've not explained what an item does (or the player just fails to write it all down at the time), it's incredibly annoying when, two or three months later, the player pipes up with "hey, I think I still have that exploding mushroom in my backpack."

Then I'm suddenly trying to figure out what item they're talking about, as it may not be either a mushroom or explode, and what its stats were supposed to be.

I ask the players to make a note next to unidentified items indicating dungeon room number or page number to help me deal with that.

 

[ilgatto]

5. First Level Magic User Spells (Ill 7). Illusionists were treated pretty pretty shabbily by Gygax, and the way you know that is that when an illusionist reached the apex of their power, when they could cast prismatic spray ... or alter reality ... they could also choose to cast the well known spell, FIRST LEVEL MAGIC USER SPELLS! That's right, you could choose between prismatic spray and, um, erase. Good times!

Heh. To this day I remember yelling at the DM for days after creating my gnome Fighter/Illusionist way back when, and found that he'd get 1st-level Magic-User spells at... 14th level. I mean, YTAL indeed.

But I suppose the phenomenon dates from that time when CHARACTER CLASS was the Alpha et Omega of PC life. Wherefore any spell available to any character class--and with that I mean, um..., well, Magic-Users, originally--could only be available to other classes at a higher level. Thus, as we learn from Mr. Aronson's article in The Wild Hunt #19, which has the added advantage of having been based on a class invented by him when was about 12 years old IIRC, Illusionists could cast Detect Illusion at 1st level, and then Detect Magic--i.e., to detect Magic-User magic--at 2nd level. Whereas Magic-Users COULD NOT cast Detect Illusion at all, and therefore NEVER know whether they were confronted with an illusion at all, amirite?

And yeah, Mr. Gygax was particularly cruel to the poor Illusionist when he included it in the PHB, which I suppose he actually did only coz Mr. Aronson's Illusionist did have use of quite a number of quite inventive spells--and even more of them than would eventually appear in the PHB.

Which also lies at the basis of the 1st-level MU spells. For in The Strategic Review Vol. 1, No. 4 (1975, mind u), the Illusionist would get them at 8th level, as 4th-level spells. And then, crucially, at 9th level, he could cast 2nd-level Magic-User spells! And then, um.... --eagerly turns to The Dragon #1 and even The Wild Hunt--wait, what? No 3rd-level spells at 11th level?

Oh well.

(...) or tell me how wrong I am and how you used Erase to take down a band of fire giants in the comments!

Heh, that's pushing it, mon cher! I mean, it's ONLY a 1st-level spell.

However.

As I recall, our party once found themselves, and I paraphrase: "... leaving the safe cave and traversing a ravine that led directly to the spiney, broken heap of slag which was indicated as the site of the Hall by their map--and obvious to them otherwise, for it had a wide, well-trod path leading up to two great slabs of black stone, obsidian portals which gave access to Snurre's Hall, and were completely covered in all manner of symbols, runes, and glyphs, some of them glowing evilly" ... wait, that's not in the module!
Oh dear, the DM may have upped the ante a bit as he colored the whole and brought it to life while considerable detail had already been given.

 

[Byrd]

Part Water; Lower Water
Water Walk
Speak With Dead; Raise Dead
Create Food & Water

---
But my all time favorite, straight outta a fairy tale: Sleep-Curse (BECMI: Dawn of the Emperors Box Set)

 

[Zardnaar]

I remember dig!!.