Action Points and games that use them.

[Tigris]

Does Pathfinder 2e allow you to spend Action Points to take actions out of initiative order (i.e. "not on your turn" in game)?

No. It uses reactions like D&D for that.


In D&D 4e as mentioned above you could only use them in your turn for 1 additional action, however, you could use them also when yout turn would have been over. Like after charging your turn would be over but an action point would still allow to do then more, but for acting in other players turn it also used reactions. What I really liked in 4e was that each paragon path (you got them at level 11 and they are like "subclasses" / prestige classes) would give you either 1 extra use for power points or more often a bonus when you use a power point. And some feats and specific classes (warlord mostly) also did the same.


Emberwind uses 4 action points per turn. And it does not use "multi attack penalty" like PF2 making it more free what to do with them: Fantasy Tabletop RPG for Beginners & Advanced Players - EMBERWIND


For out of turn actions it also uses reactions, but they are a limited (per combat) reasource depending on your stats. Per default you only use 1. Emberwind for me os a really cool design because of how it makew irs action points feel so free /nor limiting where PF2 feels for me the opposite with penalties and acrion tax etc.


Trespasser (at least in the one which one could try for free at some point) used also action points, but more limited a bit like pf2. You could only use 1 real attack action in your turn (instead of multi attack penalties). And it also uses reactions for out of turn: Trespasser: Dark Fantasy Tactics by tundalus


I did read some (early stage) rpgs on reddit in rpgdesign communities which used actions in this way:

• You have 4 actions
• All you dont use turn into reactions
• you need reactions to defend yourself for attacks.
• I think most used getting 4 acrions in your turn.
• I think I also saw one where you get 4 actions starting at end of turn and all you did not use for reactions you can use in your turn to attack. (Similar to the trading card game flesh and blood).

I Cant remember the names of these games though, I am sorry but I felt that this dewign came up several times in the rpg design subreddit.


Dragonbane is also A bit similar to this. You have 1 action you can use it as reaction to defend yourself or for attacking. But pnly 1 action point. Dragonbane - Free League Publishing (it should have some free quickstart)


In computer RPGs its quite common to have action points, often ties to cards, like in knights in tigh places: or grand guilds:
But there are also some great examples with no cards like into the breach which is not fantasy but worth looking into because how well it uses the limited actions:

This is all thar come to mind.

 

[aramis erak]

It's worth noting that, prior to D&D 4, Action points generally meant a pool of points, refreshed each turn, and all actions that turn had to be paid for from them. Most actions also cost more than 1 AP.

D&D 4 used the term for extra actions, a very different meaning. Further, 1 AP = 1 extra action. Some newer games do things the D&D 4 way. They're better termed drama points or hero points, IMO.

Also a consideration: Essentially, most of the Free League games use a short/long distinction. Mathematically, it's 5 AP, with a short action costing 2 AP and a long costing 3 AP, with no 1 AP actions. (But a few 0 point "free actions" in some designs).

 

[Thierry-Advent]

Many hex skirmish wargames of the 80s used actions points. The players could spend points on hex movement, changing hex facing, simple combat actions and special attacks for each of their combattants. Arena of Death by SPI was an example of that trend.

In Dragonbane, every character has Willpower points the player can spend to trigger combat and non-combat special abilities on top of regular (move + one action) activation.

 

[Morrus]

I remember FASA's game in the 80s (like Star Trek) used action points. You had a number based on your ability scores, IIRC, usually 9-12 action points, and various actions cost different numbers of points, and each square of movement also cost a point.

 

[dbm]

Rolemaster 2 Companion IV had a… detailed… action point system if you wanted it.

Spoiler: A table!

I don’t recall ever using it.

 

[SteveC]

A lot of systems are using a variation of PF2's 3 AP on a turn.

The one I like the most (since I'm running it) is Nimble: you get 3 AP, and they reset at the end of your turn. Between the end of your turn and your next one, you can spend AP on reactions. But if you do, you'll have less on that turn because they don't reset until the end of your turn. It keeps you paying attention, and weighing the cost/benefit of reacting.

 

[Staffan]

I think Hero uses a system with a variable number of actions per round, spread out across the round (e.g. if you have a single action, you act on tick 5 out of 10, and if you have two actions you act on ticks 3 and 7, and so on – I haven't played it so I don't know the specifics, but something like that).

Exalted 2e had a reverse action point system, where you had a continuously increasing tick count and when you took an action you had to wait a number of ticks until you could act again (so if you took a Speed 5 action on tick 3, you could take your next action on tick 8). This was combined with allowing for multi-actions at increasing penalties (so you could attack three different times at a penalty of, IIRC, -3, -4, and -5).

The Swedish game Neotech has a bit of an odd system. You get one main action each round, but you also get any number of maneuvers you can take either before or after the main actions. This can be things like picking stuff up, taking combat drugs (or for that matter other drugs), moving, or stuff like that. However, these things have an initiative cost, as do defensive actions – this reduces your initiative for the rest of the fight, until you spend a whole action to reset your initiative. Basically, your initiative is how much control you have over the fight, and certain things erode that control until you re-establish it.

Feng Shui has a somewhat similar system, except allowing for multiple actions per "sequence" (round). The highest initiative rolled determines which "shot" the sequence starts at, and once you have taken an action on a particular shot you have to wait a certain number of shots (usually 3) before your next action. Certain actions can be taken out of turn, like various defensive moves, and if these have a shot cost of their own that postpones your next action. E.g. you act on shot 14, and your next shot would be on 11. On 13, someone tries to hit you, so you Dodge at a cost of 1 shot, postponing your next shot until 10.

In my general experience, action points or other ways of having "number of actions" as a stat tend to be hard to balance. If the baseline is low, getting more action points is a huge boost (having 3 actions instead of 2 is huge). If the baseline is high (double digits), accounting becomes difficult, and people will tend to try to optimize their actions to use up their APs as efficiently as possible.

 

[John Dallman]

DragonQuest had an interesting action point system. You got somewhere between 8 and 12 action points per round, dependent on your basic attributes. You spent them on taking actions, which had varying costs between 0 and about 5. Once you ran out of APs, you did nothing until everyone else was also out, then a new round started.

A probably-unintended consequence of the AP system was a degree of co-operation between two people fighting each other in melee. If you both took an Attack action at the same time, you would probably both hit each other, which was bad: characters didn't have many hit points. It was much preferable to be doing an Evade when your opponent Attacked. If you both Evaded at the same time, you both wasted APs. So opponents would agree who would Attack first and alternate Attacks and Evades so that all Attacks were against an Evade. You lived longer that way

 

[billd91]

I think Hero uses a system with a variable number of actions per round, spread out across the round (e.g. if you have a single action, you act on tick 5 out of 10, and if you have two actions you act on ticks 3 and 7, and so on – I haven't played it so I don't know the specifics, but something like that).

In Champions, a turn is broken up into 12 action phases. You can act on a number of phases equal to your speed score - Joe Average human has a speed of 2 and can go twice. A more powerful hero who bought a speed of 5 can act 5 times, etc.

 

[trappedslider]

D&D 4th edition used Action Points. 1 Action Point let you use another Action (whether standard, minor, or move). It’s been too long since I played it to remember if there were ways to spend them between your turns, but it probably would’ve needed a special class power to do so.

d20 Modern ?

Yes d20 modern used them BEFORE 4th edition did

A player can spend 1 action point to do one of the following:

Alter a single d20 roll used to make a attack, a skill check, an ability check, a level check, or a saving throw.
Use a class talent or class feature during their turn for which the expenditure of 1 action point is required.
A character can only spend 1 action point in a round. If a character spends a point to use a class feature, he or she can't spend another one in the same round to improve a die roll, and vice versa.

When a character spends 1 action point to improve a d20 "20 sided die" roll, add 1d6 "6 sided die" to the d20 roll to help meet or exceed the target number. A character can declare the use of 1 action point to alter a d20 roll after the roll is made — but only before the GM reveals the result of that roll (whether the attack or check or saving throw succeeded or failed). A character can't use an action point on a skill check or ability check when he or she is taking 10 or taking 20.

Depending on the hero's character level (see the table), he or she may be able to roll more than one d6 when spending 1 action point. If the character does so, apply the highest result and disregard the other rolls.

Every time a character gains a level up in a class, they will gain Action Points equal to:

From Basic classes
5 + one-half their character level rounded down
A level 4 Strong Hero will gain 7 (5 + 2) points.
From Advanced classes
6 + one-half their character level rounded down
A level 7 Soldier will gain 9 (6 + 3) points.
Occasionally, GMs may reward players with action points for specific tasks or successful extreme actions.


Then SW saga edition used them but called them force points "Force Points represent a character's knack for using The Force to aid their actions. A character need not be Force-sensitive to use Force Points."