Age of Worms - spoilers included

[farscapesg1]

OK, our group just started the Age of Worms adventure path, and I've got some serious questions about the feasibility of these adventures. Let me start by saying that we are playing with 32-point buy characters, 6 players in the group, and we are allowed pretty much any 3.5 WOTC product that is not setting specific (no FR, Eberron, etc.).

The group consists of the following;
Human Cleric of Heironeous
Human Paladin of Heironeous
Catfolk (Races of the Wild) Warlock
Human(ish) Sorcerer
Human Rogue
Elf Druid (with wolf animal companion)

OK, first with a little DM-provided background. The Paladin and Cleric (my character) have been charged by the local church of Heironeous to investigate the Wispering Cairn and make sure that it is "cleared out of anything valuable" before the rival adventuring group from the Free City gets to it. To me, that means making sure that every crook and cranny has been checked and scoured.

This brings me to the first major complaint about the module. The gas trap Is the adventure really designed thinking that at least 1 character will have a 18 strength or that the rogue will have spent feats to improve his disable device checks?

The paladin has the highest strength in the group (15) with the cleric and rogue right behind (14). With a DC 25 (given to us by the DM after the fact), even with benefit of 3 others helping (+6 from aid another, the DM said that only 4 people could work on the block at a time) the Paladin would have to roll a 17 or higher to move the block. If failed, then it would set off the trap. A 15% success chance doesn't seem very likely for a 1st level group to avoid the strength-draining gas, so that really wasn't an option.

The next option is disable device. Our rogue had a +6 to his checks, making it a roll of 14 or better to disable (DC 20). With an added Guidance spell from my cleric, that reduced it to 13 or better. A 35% chance was better in our opinion, but relied entirely on one character's roll. Needless to say, that roll failed. It ended up taking 4 tries to get it, which left the rogue, paladin, and cleric all hurting for strength. Of course, the irritation of something that difficult to get by at first level was was the biggest pain and irritation.

Then we came to the brown mold :\ We can see the light in the other room and both the cleric and paladin feel that their duty is to clear everything out, including that room. However, no one has any cold spells Realistically, there is no way to get past the brown mold without cold magic. I suppose that we could send someone back to town to try to find some Ray of Frost scrolls, but we only have a couple days to make sure everything is cleared out. With few options left, the cleric attempts to jump the mold, failed my jump check, and am now a popsicle with -44 non-leathal cold damage

The module seems to make some pretty specific assumptions (cold magic, really good strength scores, etc.) that don't fit all campaigns. Maybe it is partially the DM'ing part, but shouldn't there be ways to get around some of these obstacles if you don't have the assumed abilities? I guess as soon as I recover from being a popsickle, I will be making the recommendation of picking up some cold-based scrolls to try to clear away the brown mold

Sorry for venting, but we are only two sessions into the module and it feels like it is almost impossible. Maybe it is the curse that has apparently affected our dice resulting in so many bad rolls that I can't even count anymore. It also doesn't help that we have two Lawful characters that have been a task by their church and feel that this task must be accomplished, with a party of idiots as their only help.

I'm not looking forward to the climb checks up the chains that we found in one of the lantern alcoves

 

[BlackMoria]

You are operating under the stricture of orders from the church and therein lies most of your problems.

The Whispering Cairn is not an adventure designed for the standard 'clear out the dungeon' approach.

The fix at this point is for the cleric and paladin to have some 'leeway' in interpretation of their mandate.

I am not familiar with the Whispering Cairn per se, despite having the Dungeon mags, so I can't comment on the appropriateness of the hazards in the module design.

I do know that, based on the later adventures in the series, that you have front row seats in the world of pain tour if the church is calling the shots (giving the orders) and the paladin and cleric have no latitude in executing those orders.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

Hi farscapesg1,

Think about this for a moment. If you wanted to protect a burial cairn, would you make all the protections suitable so that any 1st level party could get over them? You may as well have no protections at all. From my perspective (as a DM about to DM this adventure path for our group), I feel that in fact the protections are a little too easy. I put it down to decay over time that some of the traps are so... benign. In terms of a 1st level party, it is most certainly possible for them to achieve eveything they need to achieve in the Cairn. Tough (very tough inparts) but fair in my opinion.

However, it seems like your group may not be used to thinking first acting next. If you are playing a Cleric (even of Heironeous), you will still have the wisdom not to rush in to a situation. Jumping over (with armor? ) a patch of brown mold is perhaps not the wisest option. Rope and pitons to "flying fox" your way over it might be a better solution. I am curious though... you could not just walk around it?

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Waylander the Slayer]

As i am currently DMing the adventure, i can address a few of the points. The adventure is difficult for an average group- it should be easier for your group considering there are 6 PC's rather than 4, as assumed. It takes good thinking, planning and tactics on the part of a group to complete portions sucessfully and it is certainly not a "run through" adventure.There are also situations where diplomacy etc. becomes critical and a direct and combative approach will get the characters killed.

In fact, almost all encounters will be higher than what is "expected". If your group has expectations that all encounters are winnable, in a direct manner and all encounters will be EL1 and approach the module in that manner, characters will end up dead. If this is the group style, then you will have a very difficult time with the adventure, and the remainder of the series to follow. All of the adventures have a high difficulty quotient and require good planning, tactics(even outside of combat) and occasionally running away or resting frequently to achieve the end. If you do not enjoy this style of play, you might want to talk to your DM.

 

[farscapesg1]

Hi farscapesg1,

Think about this for a moment. If you wanted to protect a burial cairn, would you make all the protections suitable so that any 1st level party could get over them? You may as well have no protections at all. From my perspective (as a DM about to DM this adventure path for our group), I feel that in fact the protections are a little too easy. I put it down to decay over time that some of the traps are so... benign. In terms of a 1st level party, it is most certainly possible for them to achieve eveything they need to achieve in the Cairn. Tough (very tough inparts) but fair in my opinion.

However, it seems like your group may not be used to thinking first acting next. If you are playing a Cleric (even of Heironeous), you will still have the wisdom not to rush in to a situation. Jumping over (with armor? ) a patch of brown mold is perhaps not the wisest option. Rope and pitons to "flying fox" your way over it might be a better solution. I am curious though... you could not just walk around it?

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

Well, the way the brown mold was described to us was that it completely filled the archway to the room with the glowing ceiling. The DM stated that getting within 5 feet of it caused an intense cold that resulted in damage. The Druid of the group made a Knowledge (Nature) check that let us know that we could not use fire or heat to destroy it, only cold would do that.

As for jumping the mold, there was some thought into the process. First, I removed all my armor. Then I used a Guidance spell for the skill check bonus. Then I used my Divine Vigor ability for the extra hp and 10 foot movement (getting the +4 bonus on the jump check). So, in total I had a +5 bonus to my jump check, but it doesn't matter when you roll a 7 That put my landing in the last 5 foot area of the mold (unconcious from the damage of course). I had planned ahead to have the party tie a rope around me to pull me back to safety if that failed, but by the time they got me out of the mold I was at -44 non-lethal damage.

The "flying fox" idea is interesting, but you have to have an endpoint to anchor it (in the room). If we could get to a point to anchor it, then it wouldn't be much of a trap Not to mention that the DM specified that anywhere within 5 foot causes damage, and he has in the past been a stickler that 5 foot extends into the 3rd dimension (above). With that being the case, any "zipline" above the mold would have to be higher than 5 feet.

Now, let me say that I prefer thinking games versus "charge first, ask questions later". Maybe my biggest issue isn't with the adventure as much as it is with 1st level characters. 1st level characters are so much more dependant on good rolls due to the lack of modifiers. With our current run of luck (about 70% of our rolls in the last two sessions have been below 10), that has made it almost impossible to accomplish anything.

Another issue I take (whether it is the adventure or just our groups bad luck) is that I refuse to do the "sleep, 1 or 2 encounters, sleep again" thing. Especially when it has only been around an hour since we woke up Maybe that is just me, but realistically, if the characters have just broken camp within the last couple hours, they are not going to want to hunker down and sleep again Maybe I try to play too "realistic" of a game. If my spellcaster has used all his spells in the first encounter of the day, he still wants to push on and make due with what he has left

 

[Nightfall]

Make due with what you have?! Um if were to go into say the Temple of Elemental Evil, and you pushed it as hard, I doubt you'd survive either.

Point is this: yes the encounters are hard. Yes the Cairn can feel impossible and a death trap. Maybe you should listen to the voice of your god when he says "Hey slow down! I don't need you up here yet!"

 

[farscapesg1]

Make due with what you have?! Um if were to go into say the Temple of Elemental Evil, and you pushed it as hard, I doubt you'd survive either.

Point is this: yes the encounters are hard. Yes the Cairn can feel impossible and a death trap. Maybe you should listen to the voice of your god when he says "Hey slow down! I don't need you up here yet!"

Hmm, maybe it is just a matter of the type of games I prefer. While I don't expect D&D to be realistic in all aspects, I hate the "video game" feel of "fight a battle, sleep and restore, repeat ad nauseum". I prefer to try to take it slow and avoid any unneccessary dangers, allowing the characters to make it further through the day and more "realistic" for lack of better words.

Maybe I just need to stop playing in campaigns starting at 1st level

 

[MerricB]

Is the gas trap really that deadly? I seem to remember my group triggering it, but otherwise only having minor effects.

Cheers!

 

[farscapesg1]

Is the gas trap really that deadly? I seem to remember my group triggering it, but otherwise only having minor effects.

Cheers!

Well, deadly may not be exactly the best word for it. It is a strength draining poison that reduces the strength by 1 on the first failed save, and an additional 1d6 on the second failed save. Considering my previous mention of our ability to roll unbelievably bad, we ended up with the rogue loosing somewhere around 8 Strength from the trap, my cleric lost 4 Strength, and the Paladin lost 4. Considering, we are the "muscle" in the group that is a pretty big hit. Normally, the cleric and Paladin might not have hung around after the first time, but the Paladin "detected evil" on the other side of the block and we were afraid that once the trap was removed the rogue could be attacked and would need some protection.

 

[Obscure]

My group never explored this part of the Cairn (I think they were terrified to get in the elevator -- and given the nature of the crushing elevator and what was waiting at the bottom of the collapsed elevator shaft, I don't blame them), but here are my thoughts:

There is a delayed onset of 4(?) rounds on the gas trap...I think the intention is that the PCs trigger the trap, hear the hiss of gas filling the chamber, and then scramble for 4(?) rounds to push over the block or get out using the elevator before they succumb to the gas. In other words, high drama, lots of fun. The strength damage isn't really a big deal, as noted. That said, the DC to push over the block could be a bit lower.

The brown mold is a nice little puzzle to get around. I think there's nothing wrong with sending the PCs out of the dungeon to acquire something they need to progress (e.g., a scroll of ray of frost, or a vial of that "alchemist's cold stuff"). According to the adventure, Diamond Lake is only an hour or so away from the Cairn.

By the way, according to the RAW, your character is dead. If you're knocked unconscious by non-lethal cold (or heat) damage, any additional damage you take from the cold is actually lethal.

I hope your DM doesn't read this thread.