An observation and hopefully some wisdom

[Aramax]

Before I start ranting,let me say I love this community,in general it is very
civil and thoughtfull.After 37 years of wargames,32 years of rpg and
28 years of DMing the same game w/2 of my original players,I still find many of the ideas here stimulating and helpfull.The ideas I get from here continue to impact my gaming-Thank you.Now I am going to put forth an
idea and I would like thoughtful examination of it.If you are going to post here I ask that you read my thoughts carefully and not jump to any conclusions.I really feel this community could benifit from these observations and I absolutly am not slamming any individual.


I think posters are far too quick to take the point of view that an idea presented is illogical or impractical.These observations are not helpfull or IMHO even valid.

History is full of great(and not so great)Men that did illogical things.One that leaps to mind is Napoleon's invasion of Egypt in 1798.He did so by equiping his troops with WOOL clothing to battle in the Sahara Desert.
If I had posted an idea where platemail armed Orc's were invading a jungle,how would the average poster have greeted this?

Another example-The issue of Patton's relations with his commanders also comes to mind.How many lives would have been saved both American and German if his brilliance had been allowed to shine fully on the battlefield.His actions that led to these problems are caused by his illogical and irrational behavior.

What I'm getting to is think outside the box ,if you see an idea that you find illogical or impractical,make construtive suggestions that add to the posters thoughts,don't dismiss them out of hand.

I don't think this is a huge problem here ,I just think that the disscusion can be greatly improved by more open-minded thinking

Thoughts?

 

[Nifft]

Because fantasy games involve fiction, they must be internally plausible.

Reality labors under no such constraint.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Rechan]

Because fantasy games involve fiction, they must be internally plausible.

Reality labors under no such constraint.

Cheers, -- N

To add to this: People are more willing to accept the impossible than they are the improbable.

 

[Aramax]

Because fantasy games involve fiction, they must be internally plausible.

Reality labors under no such constraint.

Cheers, -- N

Yet to invoke plausiblity you must compare to reality which as you say
is itself illogical.A totaly logical gameworld is in and of itself illogical

Thanx for starting the discusion the way I was hoping for!

 

[Doug McCrae]

What Nifft said. Fiction is held to a higher standard than real life. As an example, in my game I named the archbishop of Boston, Sean Patrick O'Malley and was criticised for using such a ridiculously stereotypical Irish name. This, of course, happens to be the Archbishop of Boston's real name.

Similarly, what works in real life doesn't always work in rpgs. In real life someone can just die instantly of an undiagnosed medical condition. What do you think would happen if you tried to spring that on a PC without the player's consent? Sometimes the GM is just being a dick, creating implausible events to screw over the players. Just because X could happen or has happened in real life doesn't mean it's okay for it to happen in a game. There has to be a sense of fairness.

 

[Ariosto]

I would note that once the Army of the Orient reached Egypt, the wool coats were soon replaced with lightweight cotton or linen tunics.

If one can see that a course of action made sense to the one(s) who undertook it, then that it seems in retrospect "illogical" is beside the point.

When we're dealing not with established fact but with speculative possibility, it is not enough to assume that "it must make sense from the inside". We need an answer as to why the thing in question is seen as practical by the people involved.

 

[jdrakeh]

Shouldn't this be in Meta as it's a complaint/suggestion regarding poster behavior?

 

[kitsune9]

Hi Aramax,

I think it would be cool that if gamers are more open-minded, I'm sure that we'd have more interesting discussions, but I tend to think we're all like a bunch of cats--we all have different tastes, motivations, and agendas as to what makes for a good thread/topic.

Happy Gaming!

 

[Jack7]

Thoughts?

In general I concur.

Shouldn't this be in Meta as it's a complaint/suggestion regarding poster behavior?

Ara is thinking outside the box.

My assumption upon encountering any novel idea or approach to a problem is twofold. 1 - to verify that I actually understand the real problem or suggestion, and not just my assumption of what is being stated. For instance I will typically say, "If I'm reading you right," or "assuming I'm understanding what you mean correctly," etc. And 2- to try and think of a way to exploit or improve upon the idea, suggestion, or approach.

I get the first from my detective and military training. Never automatically assume you understand anything if there is any doubt that you really do. You will waste time and possibly lives making such silly assumptions unless you are really sure you understand the real problem or idea or concept involved. And always try to fully understand both the overall concept and the associated details before rushing in to draw definitive conclusions. Examine the evidence, and assume the other person's point of view and try to comprehend their approach to the idea. Patience is a virtue that usually pays rewarding dividends. So I try to avoid reflexive mental assumptions. Especially quick ones.

The second I get from my scientific training, and from my personal experience being involved with various experiments and from designing inventions. Wrong things can be improved upon, right things can be exploited, and almost everything can be improved. So I also try and avoid dismissing anything out of hand until I've explored the actual possibilities, and compared that against likely function.

I find these two approaches, especially in combination, have helped me avoid a lot of crap in life I would have otherwise fallen victim to. It's how I suggest my students proceed as well.

But one last thing I think important. I also try and avoid making linguistic assumptions. Yes, words have specific and precise meanings, but that doesn't mean people always use language in that way when communicating. It has been my actual experience that truth be told, they usually don't use it precisely. Therefore, for more than one reason, language is an inherently limited way of communicating truth. Just hold that in mind whenever you are trying to decipher what someone else actually means. Because often they say one thing and are in reality implying something else.

 

[Simon Atavax]

History is full of great(and not so great)Men that did illogical things.One that leaps to mind is Napoleon's invasion of Egypt in 1798.He did so by equiping his troops with WOOL clothing to battle in the Sahara Desert.

??? You think Napoleon was a great man?