Another "Dominate" question

[Greenfield]

Another question came to mind regarding Dominate Person.

Presume you Dominate someone, and simply tell them to go to sleep.

Do they sleep, as if affected by a Sleep spell, or Symbol of Sleep? Or do they lay down, perhaps wrap themselves in their cloak and use their pack for a pillow, and try to fall asleep (despite any noise or other circumstance that would make sleep difficult)?

 

[Arrowhawk]

Another question came to mind regarding Dominate Person.

Presume you Dominate someone, and simply tell them to go to sleep.

Do they sleep, as if affected by a Sleep spell, or Symbol of Sleep? Or do they lay down, perhaps wrap themselves in their cloak and use their pack for a pillow, and try to fall asleep (despite any noise or other circumstance that would make sleep difficult)?

If they just woke up, and they aren't tired, then it would be against their nature to go asleep and they get another saving throw

You can't make someone fall asleep with Dominate. You can make them attempt to fall asleep.

If the command were simply "go to sleep" and the person were standing in front of the caster, I would say the person would stand right there, no pack, no pillow, no teddy bear, and close their eyes until they fell asleep....could take awhile...like days in the upright position. Once they fell asleep, they would most likely fall over...wake up and no longer be under the command.

The RotG makes a big deal about word choice. Poorly worded commands get bad results. I would not interpret word choice, I would take commands as literally as possible with Dominate.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

I second [MENTION=6679551]Arrowhawk[/MENTION], they would likely attempt to sleep as normal. There is no reason to believe it would mimic the effects of another spell.

 

[Greenfield]

That's kind of what I was thinking, though I think Arrowhawk's idea of "sleep standing up" is wrong.

If you Dominate someone and give them the mission, "Kill Lord Darby", will they simply draw a weapon and start swinging at empty air, in the hopes Lord Darby will wander into the way? Of course not. They'll use their head, at least to the extent of taking steps to make the deed possible.

Is it automatically "against someone's nature" to take a nap? Seems a bit severe to me.

So while I agree that the target of a "Go to sleep" command won't simply pass out on the spot, neither will they try to sleep while standing in place. They're Dominated, but they aren't brain dead.

 

[Arrowhawk]

If you Dominate someone and give them the mission, "Kill Lord Darby", will they simply draw a weapon and start swinging at empty air, in the hopes Lord Darby will wander into the way?

That's just such a ridiculous disanalogy you're losing credibility fast.

Is it automatically "against someone's nature" to take a nap? Seems a bit severe to me.

I didn't say that. I said if they just woke up and they were told to go to sleep in the middle of the day, that might be against their nature. And that's given you're completely ignoring the wink emoticon which suggests I was kidding.

They're Dominated, but they aren't brain dead.

There's nothing brain dead about falling asleep standing up. People do it if they are forced to stand. The real point is that lazy or poorly worded commands get bad results. The command isn't "Lie down and got to sleep." The command is "go to sleep." Bad choice of words. But hey, maybe the person just drops to the ground and attempts to sleep. Who can say when such a thing doesn't exist.

But we all know a DM is free to do what they want. They can even insist half a town can be Dominated by a single vampire with nobody figuring it out.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

I've never seen Dominate RP'd as literally as [MENTION=6679551]Arrowhawk[/MENTION] is describing, I'm more familiar with [MENTION=6669384]Greenfield[/MENTION]'s explaination of 'Give a command, individual then reasons the most simple/logical way to do so within limits of ability'.

However, with the reading of the Dominate spell wording, I could see how a DM could play Arrowhawk's way. I just have never seen it before.

 

[kitcik]

However, with the reading of the {whatever} wording, I could see how a DM could play Arrowhawk's way. I just have never seen it before.

Wait a minute while I cut and paste this into 40 threads...

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

A dominated target tries to carry out your orders, but it's still limited by its own ability to do so. So the creature would try to find an adequate place to sleep and attempt to in whatever fashion is normal sleeping habit for it (ie, laying down for most), but it would definitely not fall asleep right away unless maybe if it were already tired, and might not be able to at all if well rested or unable to find a quiet, moderately comfortable area to sleep in.

I have no idea what sort of rolls to use to determine if the creature falls asleep and how long it'd take. Maybe a % roll or endurance-based Con check that it can't opt to simply fail every 15 minutes or half hour?

 

[Arrowhawk]

I've never seen Dominate RP'd as literally as [MENTION=6679551]Arrowhawk[/MENTION] is describing, I'm more familiar with [MENTION=6669384]Greenfield[/MENTION]'s explaination of 'Give a command, individual then reasons the most simple/logical way to do so within limits of ability'.

However, with the reading of the Dominate spell wording, I could see how a DM could play Arrowhawk's way. I just have never seen it before.

I'm sure you haven't seen anyone play the Dominate spell in such a way. There are undoubtedly many ways to interpret how the spell works. But I'll share with you some of the Rule of the Game statements made specifically about Dominate Person:

As with the suggestion spell, it pays to be careful how you phrase orders. For example, if you order a subject to attack its ally, it almost certainly will get a saving throw to throw off the spell. The subject, however, can accomplish this order with a single action. If you repeat the order, the subject will get a new saving throw. On the other hand, if you order a subject to slay one of its allies, the subject will get only one saving throw.​

It's a safe bet Greenfield would never consider that the "attack your ally" command would be completed with one swing of the sword.

The other important point of contention is some people want to impose a "to the best of your abilities" clause in with Dominate. The rule makes no such requirement. Neither does RotG talk about any such requirement. RotG does use that language with the Command spell, but not with Dominate.

Let's look at Command in the SRD

You give the subject a single command, which it obeys to the best of its ability at its earliest opportunity. You may select from the following options.​

SRD also includes that requirement with Summon Nature's Ally, but not with Dominate. So WotC clearly knows about using that phrase. For me, the fact that "to the best of its abilities" is absent, signifies a material omission to the manner in which the spell is intended to work. Like anything, a DM can always Rule 0 that requirement in there, but RAW doesn't have it.

Now, how quickly someone will attempt to go to sleep is not covered. Do they go find a bed, do they walk around until they get tired, do they lay down on the floor, would they drink a Sleeping potion if they had one handy, do they attempt to sleep standing up?...no definitive answer.

 

[Vegepygmy]

Wait a minute while I cut and paste this into 40 threads...

Will someone please XP kitcik for me?