Armor vs Defense Bonus question

[thullgrim]

I am working on a classless rules set...sorta...and I want to make the light armor/no armor character type viable, as well as the heavy armor tank type. I am thinking about a maneuvering in armor skill and a defense skill. Defense will add a defense bonus to armor class but not be stackable with an armor bonus. In addition I want to give armor a DR so that it remains viable. Do you think this approach will work? Will armor continue to be worn as for the DR value in spite of the fact that it inhibits movement, dex bonus, skill penalities, etc?

Any opinions welcome. By the way this whole thing is still in the brainstorming stage of things so any input is really welcome.

Thullgrim

 

[Shalewind]

Unless you have players that really understand character over stats, the two pronged system for Armor DR vs Defense can be min/maxed rather easily. I've tried three such systems.

1) Armor = AC, Defense Bonus = AC, non-stacking expect with Fighter.
This works fine, but it really hurts people that don't have some armor compatibility. Plus, people whom rely on defense bonus don't get buffs from magical armor... Great for a low to no magic setting though.

2) Armor = DR, Defense = AC
This is an interesting combo. You still have your defense types lacking all the cool armor buffs. In fact, it's really hard to make this balance because either the DR tends to be too good (every hit is meaningless because it's so high), or worthless because it's too low (1 point! So what, I'd rather have the +3 to AC!). Again, this works better in a non fantasy game.

3) Armor = DR + AC, Defense = AC
Still working with this one. I'll let you know.

In the end, Defense bonus works well for a game focused on more fighting encounters in a low magic setting. You have to walk on some pretty sharp glass to get it to work in a high magic or D&D "standard" magic setting and still keep the balance.

Do you think this approach will work? Will armor continue to be worn as for the DR value in spite of the fact that it inhibits movement, dex bonus, skill penalities, etc?

This depends solely on your players, my friend.

I'm lucky enough to have a group that says stuff like "Damn! I could have like a 22 AC if I did that! Wow... Guess I'll stick with this 14 and keep the image of big knight in armor..."

Good luck. I'll post more as I think of it.

 

[CombatWombat51]

Here's what I use IMC.

Basically, armor gives DR
Defense comes from classes, and progress like saves (Fighters have a Good defense, Rogues = Medium, Wizards = Poor) Expertise gives a bonus to defense, and it generally represents an active bonus to your AC.

Defense
This is a bonus to your armor class based on your level. Your defense bonus represents how adept you are at parrying and blocking melee attacks. You must split your defense bonus against multiple attackers, but you can divide it however you like. (A 14th level fighter with a defense of 9 who’s being attacked by 3 creatures could apply 3 defense to all, 4 points to 2 and 1 point to the other attack, or any combination he chooses, including all his defense on one attacker).
The type of weapon you are (or aren’t) wielding will affect your defense bonus. The modifiers on the accompanying table add together. So if a human fighter is totally unarmed, he gets no defense bonus to his armor class because he loses half his bonus for wielding a tiny weapon, and he also loses half his bonus for being unarmed. A character with the Pugilist feat (basically Improved Unarmed Attack) would only lose half his defense bonus, because while using his fists he counts as armed. A character with the Brawler feat (Next up from Improved Unarmed Attack) wouldn’t lose any bonus because he can use any part of his body as a weapon (and feet are considered small weapons). Armor check penalties apply to your defense bonus, but you can’t have a negative defense bonus from wearing armor.
You don’t get your defense bonus against ranged attacks.
You lose your defense bonus whenever you’d lose your Dexterity bonus to AC, excepting certain rare circumstances (such as your feet being glued to the ground, for example).

Defense Mods
Weapon Effect
Weapon 2+ sizes smaller ½
Unarmed ½
Unproficient weapon ½

I've considered having the armor check penalty actually allow a negative defense bonus, as that would make for only mid+ level fighters in plate. I haven't done it, cuz I can't really think of how it would work, and the cost of the armor seems to be enough of a prohibition on low levels in plate.