Shin Okada
Explorer
Say, a PC gains fly speed somehow for a short time and grabbed a flying monster. When he lost his fly speed, shall he fall down and release the monster?
Assuming a PC grabs a flying monster..
- Thread starter Shin Okada
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UngeheuerLich
Legend
No.
I don´t know what RAW says, but it doesn´t matter.
I would however not immobilize the grapped creature but the grabber instead.
I don´t know what RAW says, but it doesn´t matter.
I would however not immobilize the grapped creature but the grabber instead.
It kinda matters, but yeah, this is one place where to an extent DME trumps RAW.
The rules limit you to grabbing creatures no larger than one size larger than you. As such, it's fine to let you immobilize the creature you've grabbed even if it's flying -- but I'd give the grabber an option -not- to immobilize the target if they wanted it (eg, "no, I don't want to fall pummetting from the sky").
Obvously, if you grab onto a creature larger than that (flying or not), you don't get to immobolize it and you're firmly in page 42 territory (and you're not "Grabbing"; just grabbing). If you can hack at the dragon while defending against it trying to shake you off its back, though, more power to you.
Aulirophile
First Post
The scenario you described wouldn't happen. Unless you have hover, Flying prevents you from taking opportunity actions. If you are affected by any condition that prevents you from taking opportunity actions, the grab ends instantly. So you'd roll your grab attack, succeed, and then it'd end instantly.
I'm not sure how it'd work if the player had hover, but only temporarily. If there aren't any player abilities that grant hover, it is a moot point.
I'm not sure how it'd work if the player had hover, but only temporarily. If there aren't any player abilities that grant hover, it is a moot point.
UngeheuerLich
Legend
Of course: grabbing a larger flying creature will be page 42.
it is just that whole grab dynamics minus immobilize minus target may not be larger than you are dropped. The flyer can use escape artis or athletics to get rid of you.There are plenty of cases where it works:
1. Grabbing a flying creature while you're on the ground and it's in reach. This works, assuming it's small enough.
2. There are plenty of abilities that give players temporary flight with hover. To start with, Genasi can take Stormrider and get hover whenever they're flying. Storm Sorcerers can use Thundering Gust to gain a fly speed with Hover starting with level 3. Wardens can use Form of the Vengeful Storm (which will end when they use a different power) at level 9. Avengers can get Fly 7 (hover) for two turns at level 10. And then there are paragon paths.
Moreover, while -flying- without hover doesn't let you make opportunity attacks, -falling- doesn't prevent you from making oppy attacks. So if you're willing to grab onto a target until both of you hit the ground, well...
Also, arguably, you can grab a target while flying and then -stop- flying as a free action.
UngeheuerLich: Absolutely. Grabbing a creature more than 1 larger than you (flying or not) is a page 42 action.
Aulirophile
First Post
Um, OK? But that wasn't the situation described, so.... what was your point exactly? Further unless an effect says you can end it, you can't. So unless you meant that you stop flying as a free action, in which case you crash (fall your fly speed to the ground). Since you're moving away from the creature, the grab ends. The most generous interpretation you might be able to use a move action to force the grabbed creature to move with you to the ground (that would be a Rule of Cool ruling however and not strictly RAW).
Now as for flight with hover, that just works. But if you lost the ability to Fly for some reason, you either fall instantly thus moving away from the creature, grab ends (this is strictly RAW) or your DM rules something else.
keterys
First Post
I don't believe there's any rule that requires you to fall if you're holding onto something. Whether that something is a rope, cliff edge, or dragon. Or if you're mounted on a wyvern for that matter.
Now, if that (rope, cliff edge, or dragon) is unable to sustain your weight... then down they go, no problem. But there's no forced or chosen movement away from the target when the fly ends, so as far as I can see the grab is still in effect.
Now, if that (rope, cliff edge, or dragon) is unable to sustain your weight... then down they go, no problem. But there's no forced or chosen movement away from the target when the fly ends, so as far as I can see the grab is still in effect.
Aulirophile
First Post
Unless you are holding onto a surface you can hold onto or rest upon (from the example given it is obvious "hold onto" applies to walls etc), you crash when you stop flying. That is the exact rule. If you want to categorize an enemy as a "surface", then you don't fall and the grab sustains, with the grabbed target immobilized in his current square.
I am not claiming any of this makes sense, but those are the actual rules. I'd make something different up if it comes up in my home game, but that wasn't the question. His question was what do the rules say. My answer is the correct one for the question he asked.
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