Trailer Avengers: Doomsday | Only in Theaters December 18, 2026

[ART!]

Before Endgame - the MCU movies were movies....based on comic book characters.

After Endgame - We have comics as movies.

I think things like the multiverse, which is such a stable of the comic book world, does not translate to the general audience. the MCU worked because it was this continuous narrative about interesting characters saving the world.

But then with teh multiverse, we learn our world is just 1 in a trillion. That there are billion of iterations of the characters we love. That infinity stones are just paperweights in someone's drawer. And that....nothing actually matters.

In comics, looking at characters time and again through different lenses and styles is one of the joys of the medium....but to introduce it after focusing on this tighter cinematic narrative doesnt' work. And so the tapestry has fallen apart.

There are a number of other specific things I can point to, but I think that is the overall issue.

This rings true.

As much as Mrs ART! has enjoyed a lot of MCU stuff, and loved something as multiverse-y as Everything, Everywhere, All At Once, the MCU multiverse stuff mostly leaves her cold. Like, too much of it is way too much. It was cool in Loki, and it was fun in No Way Home, but when it gets to be this big sprawly thing, it's just too much and the stakes are both too big and mean less.

 

[Clint_L]

The problem with the multiverse premise, used as willy nilly as it has become in the MCu (and yes, in comics previously) is that it absolutely destroys narrative stakes. If you tell me that there are basically (or literally; c.f. DC) infinite subtle variations on every character and world, then what do I care if skybeam of the week blows this one up? You've just shown me that it has happened before and will happen again, over and over. If our hero's marriage falls apart in this universe, it's fine in infinite other universes. And so on.

So now writers have find somewhat implausible ways to bring stakes back, like "canonical events" for Spiderman, etc. I agree that Secret Wars will likely be written to resolve this issue...but it also implies that this entire arc of the MCU was a Bad Idea. Which it was. They need to go back to stories that are driven by character arcs, not plot.

Which is basically Writing 101. I blame Disney for them straying from the path, but it always happens when an IP reaches a certain magnitude. The corporate inertia becomes too much.

 

[ART!]

It might also have been Marvel feeling the need to one-up themselves, as in "We built a universe and you loved it with all your dollars - now we'll show you a multiverse and you'll multi-love it with all your multi-dollars! Huzzah!"

 

[Stalker0]

And honestly, it would be nuts for my grandkids some day to be watching a continuity that started off with Robert Downey Jr. as Iron Man. That would be like us having a DC movie cinematic universe that was built around Christopher Reeves -- fun for some, but wildly unrealistic at this point.

This is the other fundamental problem of course.... the classic "superhero fatigue".

It has happened to EVERY SINGLE GENRE in the medium. X is popular for a while, its the zeitgeist, than it fades away. Westerns, zombies, aliens, sci fi, take your pick. All had their time in teh sun, all trailed off, some come back periodically.

It is insanity to think that Superheroes would be any different. I mean its been an incredible ride, 18 years since Iron Man!!! But the ride WILL give out eventually....you don't need Thanos to know that its "inevitable".

Doesn't mean superhero movies die, they just become a more niche movie for that more limited fanbase again. The movies that makes a few million instead of a few billion.

That's my biggest worry with talks of 1.5 BILLION dollar budgets for Doomsday. At a certain point the party is over, and is the MCU just chucking its money down the money hole desperate to reclaim past glories that are just done and gone.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

This is the other fundamental problem of course.... the classic "superhero fatigue".

I mostly mean that Christopher Reeve hasn't been capable of appearing in an DCU films since 2004 and wouldn't have been doing any stunts after 1995, which means the DCU would either have to recast Superman in an ongoing single continuity, replace Superman in some fashion, or something else.

As much as some people can't imagine not having their franchises continue in a single ongoing continuity forever and ever, that isn't realistic for more than a few years.

Sean Connery was 32 when he filmed Dr. No. If he was still alive today, he'd be 96 and, again, he wouldn't have been capable of pulling off anything like a traditional James Bond movie for decades. He was joking in Never Say Never Again -- when he was 53 -- that he was too old to keep doing it.

So superhero movies either have to go multiverse -- and risk either massively lowering the stakes, general incoherence, or simply unfavorable comparisons to Spider-Verse and Everything, Everywhere, All At Once -- or they have to loosen up on strict continuity and let the movies and TV shows just exist without everyone getting upset about them all not matching.

That's my biggest worry with talks of 1.5 BILLION dollar budgets for Doomsday. At a certain point the party is over, and is the MCU just chucking its money down the money hole desperate to reclaim past glories that are just done and gone.

If you're personally funding the MCU, I need to send you a private message about some exciting investment opportunities.

 

[Zardnaar]

This is the other fundamental problem of course.... the classic "superhero fatigue".

It has happened to EVERY SINGLE GENRE in the medium. X is popular for a while, its the zeitgeist, than it fades away. Westerns, zombies, aliens, sci fi, take your pick. All had their time in teh sun, all trailed off, some come back periodically.

It is insanity to think that Superheroes would be any different. I mean its been an incredible ride, 18 years since Iron Man!!! But the ride WILL give out eventually....you don't need Thanos to know that its "inevitable".

Doesn't mean superhero movies die, they just become a more niche movie for that more limited fanbase again. The movies that makes a few million instead of a few billion.

That's my biggest worry with talks of 1.5 BILLION dollar budgets for Doomsday. At a certain point the party is over, and is the MCU just chucking its money down the money hole desperate to reclaim past glories that are just done and gone.

1.5 billions might be break even point.

I suspect the real number will be 400-500 million cost of production. Plus marketing.

That would require a billion+ box office.


We might be looking at a big flop here if it "only" gets 800 million.

 

[Reynard]

I mostly mean that Christopher Reeve hasn't been capable of appearing in an DCU films since 2004 and wouldn't have been doing any stunts after 1995, which means the DCU would either have to recast Superman in an ongoing single continuity, replace Superman in some fashion, or something else.

As much as some people can't imagine not having their franchises continue in a single ongoing continuity forever and ever, that isn't realistic in more than a few years.

Sean Connery was 32 when he filmed Dr. No. If he was still alive today, he'd be 96 and, again, he wouldn't have been capable of pulling off anything like a traditional James Bond movie for decades. He was joking in Never Say Never Again -- when he was 53 -- that he was too old to keep doing it.

So superhero movies either have to go multiverse -- and risk either massively lowering the stakes, general incoherence, or simply unfavorable comparisons to Spider-Verse and Everything, Everywhere, All At Once -- or the have to loosen up on strict continuity and let the movies and TV shows just exist without everyone getting upset about them all not matching.

If you're personally funding the MCU, I need to send you a private message about some exciting investment opportunities.

Look on the bright side: we are very few years away from people being able to prompt-up their own personal Superhero sequels staring whatever stars they want from any era.

Wait, that's not a bright side...

 

[ART!]

1.5 billions might be break even point.

I suspect tge real number will be 400-500 million cost of production. Plus marketing.

That would require a billion+ box office.


We might be looking at a big flop here if it "only" gets 800 million.

With a $400-500 million budget, they'd need to make $1.5 billion (3 times it's budget is the rule-of-thumb) for it to not be considered a flop - although I'm not sure if anyone can wrap their heads around something being a flop if it makes "only" $1.5 billion...

 

[Zardnaar]

With a $400-500 million budget, they'd need to make $1.5 billion (3 times it's budget is the rule-of-thumb) for it to not be considered a flop - although I'm not sure if anyone can wrap their heads around something being a flop if it makes "only" $1.5 billion...

X2.5 is generally the number that gets used if marketing isnt known.

Can be as low as x2 as well with tax rebates eg they film in UK.

General guideline. Domestic box office heave can drag it down as well.
Yes we could have a billion dollar flop.

If it costs 500 million filmed in UK 900+ million is break even point with x2.5.

Not exact but if it gets 800 million......

 

[Staffan]

The problem with the multiverse premise, used as willy nilly as it has become in the MCu (and yes, in comics previously) is that it absolutely destroys narrative stakes. If you tell me that there are basically (or literally; c.f. DC) infinite subtle variations on every character and world, then what do I care if skybeam of the week blows this one up? You've just shown me that it has happened before and will happen again, over and over. If our hero's marriage falls apart in this universe, it's fine in infinite other universes. And so on.

The solution is to have more personal stakes. Superhero movies don't have to be about saving the world or the universe. They can be about saving one person. There might be a myriad different Nathan Christopher Summerses around in the multiverse, but this one is the son of this Scott, and he's the one infected with a technoorganic virus that necessitates sending him to the future for a cure/treatment. Maybe there are a million different Gwen Stacys in the multiverse, but this was the one this Peter Parker was unable to save and it haunts him to this day.

And that opens up the Multiverse to other avenues of storytelling. You can explore different timelines, showing different versions of the characters we already know and letting us both see the personal path not taken, and what they would have been like in entirely different circumstances.