Balancing Starlock AC

[Byronic]

I don't know why an infernal lock would bother with chain, but a star pact might want to go con and cha (for the largest variety of powers), which leaves him with no way to pump int. In that case, he would want chain.

This remark from the "Barbarian is up" thread made me think. Should there be some way of helping Starlock balance their AC to the same level that other Warlocks have? Perhaps something like this:

Feat:

Otherworldly Resilience
Prerequisites: Warlocks, Con 16 Cha 16
Warlock gains +1 AC & Ref per Tier (untyped bonus) as long as they are in light armour.

Warlocks cannot gain more then +3 bonus to their AC and Ref from their Int and Dex modifiers.

This feat (while really focussed on Starlocks) gives warlocks a chance to use more of their powers while not having to worry about their armour.

It is balanced because:

It gives less AC then they would have had if they boosted Int as much as they could.

Having less Int is its own punishment, some Warlock powers become less powerful

It allows them to use ALL of their powers just like the other strikers can

I also like this feat because it allows for more Warlock builds then "(Con or Cha) + Int"

 

[deleteme123456]

If a Starlock takes less than 16 INT (after racials), he deserves to get smacked. 16 INT plus Leather Armor + Shadow Walk concealment means that you are typically at 15 AC and melee/ranged attacks (which tend to be what hits AC anyway) are at -2 to hit, so effectively 17 AC. That's as much as an Archer Ranger with 18 DEX and hide, more than a Wizard (even with Leather, unless they're a staff wizard), and more than a rogue unless the Rogue is hiding, which OK, I'll concede that happens all the time.

Alternatively, the Warlock could take 13 STR and blow a feat on Chain since he certainly has the 13 CON. He could even just take 12 STR and wait for Paragon, if he's intending never to boost INT, he won't fall that far behind before level 8.

Remember, you're not forced to take powers that tie into your pact, if there's a power you like better from another pact... the pact bonus often doesn't matter that much.

I'll give you that the feat is a nice idea to allow paths that don't focus on INT--although I'm still not sure that's even a good idea, but it actually leaves you falling behind at the end of Epic (or beginning of Epic if Demigod), when you should be getting +8 (+9 @ end w/Demigod) from ability modifier, and you're at best getting +6 (+3 from feat, +3 INT or DEX). Chain will wind up serving you better in that case.

 

[Byronic]

True, I don't believe the feat is recommended, but it does open doors and I think the new system needs that. And while I agree that you can use powers from outside of your pact this would allow Fey and infernal locks to explore the other powers as well.

I'm thinking of removing the limitation on how much AC and Ref you can get from the feat but it would make the feat far too attractive for Half Elves who would find it very easy to stack this bonus with keeping their intellect high.

Although I must admit I forgot Shadow Walk, I do think that the Arcane lasses deal uniform the least amount of damage and "need some love"

 

[Gort]

I do think that the Arcane lasses... "need some love"

Well, they spend a lot of time at library, not their fault if they don't get out enough.

 

[NilesB]

I'd just have the feat allow you to substitute the lower of your Cha or Con modifier for Int or Dex when determining your AC and Reflex defense.

 

[Cadfan]

I think your feat gets the job done. Maybe not the way I'd do it, but it gets the job done.

Its a little clunky mathematically. Let me see if I can think up something that takes less thinking.

...
...

A warlock with a 14 Int will have an acceptable AC if he pumps Int. If he doesn't, he falls behind by 3 over the course of his career. He won't fall behind at all until level 8.

So... what about a paragon tier feat that boosts AC and which has prereqs that will be essentially unattainable for a star pact warlock who chooses to pump Int instead of pumping both Con and Cha?

Sideways Paths
Paragon
Prereqs: Star Pact Warlock, Con 19, Cha 19
When you gain concealment due to your Shadow Walk class feature, you gain +4 to all defenses instead of +2. At level 21, you gain +5 instead.

I really like this option.

Con and Cha of 19 are close to unattainable at the paragon tier without putting some of your discretionary points into both stats. Even a half elf would have to buy 16s in both stats, costing him 20 of his initial points and sticking him with an Int bonus of 12. He could do it more easily if he waited for this feat until epic, but that's probably fine.

Making it a paragon feat handles the timing issue pretty well. The curve isn't quite as smooth, but it should be smooth enough. Its a little frontloaded at the paragon tier, but who cares.

Best of all, its elegant to tie it to an existing class feature.

The biggest danger is that players will see it and not understand that it patches the AC issue and opens up a dual-path star pact warlock option. They'll think its just some fancy benefit. So they'll take it and continue to whine anyways about not having a free AC bonus to fix the fact that they're not pumping Int.

But I still think its a cool feat.

 

[Cryptos]

My whole position on Starlock is that I think they made a bad design decision of making a class feature they thought might be too good conditionally (Fate of the Void) and so they forced a straight Starlock build to split their point buy between two primary attack / damage stats as a balancing measure. True, there's nothing stopping one from taking powers from another pact, but it stands to reason that some people pick Starlock because - shock of shocks - they want the Starlock powers. If the ability's too good, don't nerf the class, just make that one ability less good. And never - NEVER - impose a restriction on a build option that affects the character all the time to balance an ability that is only too good conditionally. That's just silly.

They should have simply imposed a limitation on FotV and made Starlocks a single primary attack / damage stat path like Hell-locks and Feylocks. Why force someone to do contortions to meet a build concept because you feel one feature could be too good in certain circumstances, when you can simply make that one thing more limited? For instance, limit how the bonus stacks per tier (+1 per die roll per tier, or +2 per die roll per tier with Improved FotV, forcing the player to split up any bonuses between multiple rolls if more than one cursed foe is dropped in heroic, or two in paragon, or three in epic) instead of leaving it so you can apply the bonus for however many cursed foes you can drop in a round to a single die roll, and make Starlocks single stat warlocks like the others. Seems simple to me.

That said, something like your feat would be helpful. But then the warlock is burning a feat to help address what I see as a design flaw, when they've already had to split their point buy up between two primary stats, throwing good after bad. I like creating Starlock characters because of the concept... it was one of the big things I wanted to do first when I got 4e. But when I compare them to other builds I wouldn't want to actually play one. And if I build a starlock and take fey or hell powers to work around it, I feel I might as well just play a fey or hell warlock.

I'd honestly prefer some sort of revision or customization option in the Arcane Power book to the Star Pact as a whole over forcing a character to burn a feat to "fix" their AC, when that pure Star Pact character is already weakened by focusing on two prime stats when the other pacts only need one.

 

[Walking Dad]

Just wait for the arcane power book. Starlocks make really good cha-only locks with just the new powers from the dragon (also official and in the DDI).

If you choose not to choose between the other paths (cha or Con) (and took only 14 Int) just get the armor proficiency.

Starlocks are not more nerfed than clerics or paladins.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Starlocks have it tough, it's hard to commit to ignore CON (which powers Dire Radiance - it's hard to write off an at-will at any level) or CHA (which powers your PP powers) - but, if you don't, you skimp on INT and your AC suffers.

Taking a modest INT, not buying it up and going to heavy armor for defense works, but it's a little wierd, and leaves the secondary effects of some of your powers clearlly inferior to high-INT warlocks.

OTOH, if you /do/ boost both CON & CHA, you have good hps, good FORT & WILL, /and/ can cherry-pick the best warlock power of each level, while also getting the most out of your at-wills and PPs.

 

[Nifft]

Star 'locks have a fantastic pact boon, the best pact boon booster feat, and some of the best pact augmentations in their class.

Going strictly Cha or Con is 100% viable, and I don't see any need to reward people for gimping themselves by trying to power-game and get both.

Cheers, -- N