Balors Suck

[Infiniti2000]

They get probably the two worst possible high-level spells for one-a-days. Implosion is definitely the worst, being significantly worse than a heightened destruction and, IMO, worse than non-heightened. Firestorm is useless as a 1 round casting time. At that level, you're gonna spend a whole round casting? Puhlease.

Anyway, instead of just complaining, give me some hints on running this encounter. I have the PC's eating at an outdoor cafe as someone pertinent to the whole campaign-ending plot gates in a friendly balor, whose first action is to summon a second balor. This was a planned attack so the first balor is a little bit prepared (he has bracers of armor +5, came prebuffed with his own holy aura plus draconic might from the wizard mentioned in another thread). Riding on his shoulder is the raven familiar of said wizard, who has had imbue familiar with spells cast on it (teleport, draconic might, greater invisibility, solid fog, telekinesis, stoneskin). Obviously the draconic might already went on the balor (El Diablo, which my PCs complained means devil, yeah so what) and the stoneskin and greater invisibility went on the raven. He'll use the solid fog first and then maintain concentration on telekinesis to pick up fallen equipment and whatnot. He'll use the teleport when seriously threatened or when the job is done.

So, we have a possessed commoner who gated in the balors and will likely slash her own throat next, or maybe simply try something silly like grapple the halfling druid 19. Ignoring her and given the current setup, what will the balors do? They are currently a little over 150ft away in the middle of a street. I thought maybe one could spend time on the firestorm and start laying waste to the town if he manages to complete it. I guess he has a good concentration check so maybe both balors should start with a firestorm.

The balors do know what they're up against and so will not be too cocky and aren't afraid to use powers. While I'm asking, what exactly are the restrictions on the summoned balor?

1. Can he teleport?
2. Do his effects disappear when he dies?
3. Does a summoned balor still have death throes?
4. I'm pretty sure he can't summon other balors as that would lead to a never ending cycle
5. Is he worth any XP? No, right?
6. Is he actually summoned or called? In other words, is he kept out by a magic circle against evil/chaos?

 

[Corsair]

Summon (Sp): A creature with the summon ability can summon specific other creatures of its kind much as though casting a summon monster spell, but it usually has only a limited chance of success (as specified in the creature’s entry). Roll d%: On a failure, no creature answers the summons. Summoned creatures automatically return whence they came after 1 hour. A creature that has just been summoned cannot use its own summon ability for 1 hour. Most creatures with the ability to summon do not use it lightly, since it leaves them beholden to the summoned creature. In general, they use it only when necessary to save their own lives. An appropriate spell level is given for each summoning ability for purposes of Concentration checks and attempts to dispel the summoned creature. No experience points are awarded for summoned monsters.

Summoning: A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower. It is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can’t be summoned again.

When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire. A summoned creature cannot use any innate summoning abilities it may have, and it refuses to cast any spells that would cost it XP, or to use any spell-like abilities that would cost XP if they were spells.

So it looks like the answers to your questions are:

1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Yes.
4. Correct.
5. No. (Correct)
6. Summoned. So yes the circles affect him.

 

[Runestar]

Note there is a rule explicitly preventing summoned creatures from using their own innate teleportation abilities, so no for the 1st question. The rest are correct.

Implosion is not too bad. Give them the swift concentration feat and they can now maintain implosion as a move (or even swift, if you are lucky, or willing to invest more feats in steady concentration and skill focus).

My limited experience with a balor suggests to me that he functions best as a ranged artillery attacker. Don't ever make the mistake of having him wade into combat. Instead, you should give him some tanks to engage the PCs, while he hangs back and snipes with his SLAs. He should have the advantage with his high flight speed.

I don't like his array of save or dies though. This means your party is either screwed over bad, or not at all. No in betweens.

 

[Starbuck_II]

The balors do know what they're up against and so will not be too cocky and aren't afraid to use powers. While I'm asking, what exactly are the restrictions on the summoned balor?

1. Is he actually summoned or called? In other words, is he kept out by a magic circle against evil/chaos?

Remember, only Gate and Planar Binding: Call a creature. Summoning powers summon.

Power Stun is at will as is Dominate. Don't forget Blasphemy.

 

[Crust]

Have the balors alternate power word stuns and blasphemy spells as they swoop in and out. If power word stun isn't an option, blasphemy at caster level 20 will weaken and daze that halfling druid 19 with no save, and if both balors use it, that's a whopping total of 4d6 strength damage, which might very well incapacitate that halfling in one round, allowing the vicious coup de grace. Not sure about the other PCs.

In my experience and reading, I would assume that the balor is more than willing to wade into melee. Give them both +5 keen vorpal falchions. They are balors, after all.

 

[Runestar]

Flavourwise, yes, it makes sense to have them enter melee (see the revised 4e balor).

Stat-wise, they are woefully ill-suited for melee. Any decent fighter'esqe class will utterly rape them in combat.

BTW, I thought blasphemy deals str penalty? So they wouldn't stack. However, since you have 2 balors (1 normal, 1 summoned), you can have 1 spam blasphemy (keeping the PCs in a daze-lock), while the other does whatever needs to be done to off the PCs 1 by 1.

 

[Crust]

Huh... I took that to be ability damage, and I haven't read anything that says it doesn't stack. I just looked at the "Ability Score Loss" write-up in SRD, and I didn't see that anywhere.

Blasphemy says, "The creature’s Strength score decreases by 2d6 points for 2d4 rounds." Of course, "decreases" could mean anything. At my table, it means "ability score loss," specifically "damage" as oppose to "drain." Also consider that "The effects are cumulative and concurrent." Yes, cumulative means that all effects take effect depending on the caster level difference, but I also take that to mean that multiple castings are also cumulative. Further, compare that to ray or waves of exhaustion. An exhausted PC suffers a -6 penalty to strength among other things, and that penalty doesn't stack as you can't be doubly exhausted. The word "penalty" isn't used in blasphemy's spell description, so I don't consider it a penalty.

Heck, blasphemy is the only real reason greater demons and devils are fearsome, especially when they can use it at will. Spell resistance and greater spell immunity are the few defenses against it.

Regardless of poorly written descriptions or poorly displayed rules (one of my biggest gripes in 3.5), 2d6 could drop the wizards, elves, and halflings.

Unholy aura and the +5 keen vorpal falchions should make the balors more than a match for PCs in the upper teens, especially if those balors are augmented with quicken spell-like ability: blasphemy or power word stun. The gated balor could teleport to safety if brought to near death (provided no dimensional anchors have been set), and the summoned balor has nothing to fear from being brought to 0 hp. He'll just bounce back to the Abyss.

I also recommend beefing up the balors' hit points beyond normal. Against a powerful group, I always calculate max hp and scale it back maybe 10, maybe 20, maybe 50 points just to give the monster a fighting chance.

 

[Corsair]

Note there is a rule explicitly preventing summoned creatures from using their own innate teleportation abilities, so no for the 1st question.

You know I thought this was the case, but I couldn't find it after a cursory first glance. After a bit more thinking, I realize it is listed under the Summon Monster spell individual descriptions. Which of course is dumb, if it is intended as a general restriction, but I digress.

 

[Vorput]

Give them hats of disguise self, or some other sort of illusion magic.

Have them appear as innocent little girls- at least for the round when they both get firestorms off.

Sadly, illusions aren't really these guys forte, since having the commoner actually be the balor and the balor look like the commoner would be interesting- especially when the commoner (actually balor) goes in to grapple.

Must the balors appear within sight of the PCs? You have a few extra rounds to plan stuff- and a surprise round if they slowly move in. With a +33 UMD on scrolls, a few scrolls of summon monster XIII or IXs would distract the PCs from the real threat (especially if they're somehow disguised)- and allow implosions to (attempt) to kill 2 ppl a round. The close range on implosion hurts though.

Or just a scroll of gate to get some more balors I suppose

Vorp

 

[Infiniti2000]

The balors have already appeared and cast unholy aura. We've already had one round of combat to spice things up before our next session on Saturday night.

I think I'm going to have the summoned balor wade into melee and keep some of the party occupied while the other sits at the back and tries ranged spell-like abilities. Quite frankly, it won't work for long though as the entire party is extremely well suited for flying combat and ranged attacks. The ranger in particular will waste the balor from afar. But, the balor doesn't know that yet. After a round of attacks from the holy bow and favored enemy, the balor will use telekinesis to try to rob the ranger of his weapon.

Side note is that I don't want to modify the balors beyond the one item I threw in for the gated balor. I've never run them (for real), so I don't want to tweak them beyond the party's limits. If they get wasted, there's little lost on my part--it's not like spending 3 days on a wizard 15/archmage 5.