D&D 5E (2024) Best Arcane Caster. Sorcerer VsWizard. Dungeon Dudes: Sorcerer "Won"

[Zardnaar]

Again, you have blinded yourself to a certain type of adventure.

There is no meta without a specific game being played. That's why we say even minor patches change MMO / competitive game metas.

Every tables different. Video does address that.

Printed adventures wizards outclassed. Home adventures its very dm dependent and player dependent.

 

[tombowings]

Every tables different. Video does address that.

Printed adventures wizards outclassed. Home adventures its very dm dependent and player dependent.

Hence why the video is wrong. Printed adventures are not representative of my table. They only reason I would watch the video is to improve my own game. The video doesn't represent my table. Therefore, within my realm of care, the video is mistaken.

 

[tetrasodium]

Shocking to see how much of the "sorcerers need help" and "rangers are useless" crowd still thinks the much more powerful 5.0 -> 5.5 sorcerer is still playing distant second fiddle while ignoring the reasons given in both the video & various posts on it for why the what strengths the wizard should have just don't matter enough at the table in actual play. It's also not particularly surprising how quick that "the gm can fix that with campaign/adventure design"

 

[tombowings]

Shocking to see how much of the "sorcerers need help" and "rangers are useless" crowd still thinks the much more powerful 5.0 -> 5.5 sorcerer is still playing distant second fiddle while ignoring the reasons given in both the video & various posts on it for why the what strengths the wizard should have just don't matter enough at the table in actual play. It's also not particularly surprising how quick that "the gm can fix that with campaign/adventure design"

Except they do at my table. Wizard's flexibility = king.

 

[tetrasodium]

Except they do at my table. Wizard's flexibility = king.

I don't deny that you might have that perception about your table but the fact remains that there are actual mechanical problems identified with the pillars of play that should be a strength for wizards and a number of design choices in the rules that nullify sorcerer weaknesses while those same design choices simultaneously eliminate the wizard's ability to leverage its own remaining strengths. We have over a decade of wotc endlessly attempting to service a goal without purpose beyond MOAR POWAH in which they could not even bring themselves to even discuss or provide so much as a single UA for tables not like yours.

 

[tombowings]

I don't deny that you might have that perception about your table but the fact remains that there are actual mechanical problems identified with the pillars of play that should be a strength for wizards and a number of design choices in the rules that nullify sorcerer weaknesses while those same design choices simultaneously eliminate the wizard's ability to leverage its own remaining strengths. We have over a decade of wotc endlessly attempting to service a goal without purpose beyond MOAR POWAH in which they could not even bring themselves to even discuss or provide so much as a single UA for tables not like yours.

Increasing Wizard power will just make them even more dominant in game where versatility is key.

Maybe wizard players should find tables that better suit their playstyle. On that note, players should ALWAYS ensure the the table fits their playstyle.

 

[tetrasodium]

Increasing Wizard power will just make them even more dominant in game where versatility is key.

Maybe wizard players should find tables that better suit their playstyle. On that note, players should ALWAYS ensure the the table fits their playstyle.

Maybe follow along more closely? It's not about adding power to the wizard class like the years of calling for the sorcerer to be given more power on loop. The shift from vancian prep with class specific slot progression to neovancian with unified progression is an example of design changes that favor sorcerer at every step while those same choices prevent the wizard from actually leveraging their own in play. Another area covered in both the video and various posts that has little (if anything) to do with power is the way 5e basically deleted the need for & role of knowledge skills

 

[Zardnaar]

Hence why the video is wrong. Printed adventures are not representative of my table. They only reason I would watch the video is to improve my own game. The video doesn't represent my table. Therefore, within my realm of care, the video is mistaken.

No one's claiming that. Video did address it as well.

 

[Zardnaar]

Increasing Wizard power will just make them even more dominant in game where versatility is key.

Maybe wizard players should find tables that better suit their playstyle. On that note, players should ALWAYS ensure the the table fits their playstyle.

One can also argue at my table Sorcerers are better.

Im running an arcane heavy campaign. Wizard might squeeze it out due to magic items and 2E intelligence.

If you have to argue at my table you coukd automatically lose. If a class requires DM intervention theres your problem.

 

[Minigiant]

I don't deny that you might have that perception about your table

Except they do at my table. Wizard's flexibility = king.

The big thing is many people think their table is the norm..

And if someone says that it isnt, they demand struct data as proof and deny testimony, statements, and design trends.

Like with the 5.0e ranger Favored Enemy. It was designed for the designers' tables. Come to find out, most tables didnt play that way so the ranger was weak at most tables.


So they changed it. And fans grumbled about the Hunter's Mark focus. But WOTC literally polled the community and got Favorablity of Hunter's Mark high. And not only that, that specific version (the scaling one got downvoted).

So when people say the most popular playstyle favors Sorcerers unless high level or optimization, its a decade of discussion and surveying supporting this.

However, most people yearn for their style to be the norn and feel offended when confirmed or suggested it isnt.