D&D 5E Better Beasts?

[Weiley31]

There's an issue with beasts

Real beasts are boring on purpose

Real animals have what I call "palette swap" issues. Real animals are not interesting in combat. They are mostlyeither tough brutes, fast brutes, strong brutes, flying brutes, swimming brutes, or brutes with extra attacks. They are much like the same 4e-style stat block leveled up or down and given a level and given an movement quirk or extra senses. 3 versions of the same bears, canines, raptors, and felines.

That being said, there are somethings you can still do. There are lesser used animal families like weasels, hippos, skunks, mongoose, and large lizards that are not heavily used.

Make dat Wolf a Rune Knight!!!

 

[Minigiant]

I disagree. I think we can find ways to mimic some of the unique ways creatures fight (or flight). The crocodilian death roll for example, or the feline neck bite, or a gorilla's bluffing charge, or better represent their quickness. Jungle ambushers attack differently than open plains stalkers. There are lots of ways to had some variety. Plus, some should have skills and save bonus at least.

But that's my point. A lot of the additions are just extra attacks, skill bonuses, or save bonuses.

Animals from the real world fight boring. And this is on purpose because it's a survival mechanism. They hit you fast and hard, choke you out, poison you, or run away. There is only some much you can do to a beast using real world elements before it starts looking magical.

That's why going for more unique beasts or going though new evolution paths are easier ways to make beasts more interesting.

 

[dave2008]

Ape study series by Yuanyo

Gorilla	Challenge 2
Medium beast, unaligned	450 XP

Armor Class 12
Hit Points 45 (6d8 + 18; bloodied 22)
Speed 40 ft., climb 30 ft.

STR	DEX	CON	INT	WIS	CHA
20 (+5)	14 (+2)	16 (+3)	6 (-2)	12 (+1)	7 (-2)

Saving Throws Str +7, Con +5
Skills Athletics +7, Intimidation +7, Perception +3
Senses Passive Perception 13
Languages --
Proficiency Bonus +2 Maneuver DC 15

Brute. A melee weapon deals one extra die of its damage when the gorilla hits with it (included in the attack).

Charge. The gorilla moves at least 20 ft. straight toward a target and hits it with a fist attack. The target must make a DC 15 Strength saving throw or be pushed 15 feet and knocked prone.

Sprinter. The gorilla can take the Dash action as a bonus action.

ACTIONS
Multiattack. The gorilla makes two fist attacks and bite attack if it can

Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target grappled by the gorilla or incapacitated. Hit: 12 (2d6 + 5) piercing damage.

Fist. Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 12 (2d6 + 5) bludgeoning damage. If the target is Medium or smaller it is also grappled, if the gorilla wishes.

Rock. Ranged Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, range 25/50 ft., one target. Hit: 8 (1d6 + 5) bludgeoning damage.

Throw. One Medium or smaller object held or creature grappled by the gorilla is thrown up to 15 feet in a random direction and knocked prone. If a thrown target strikes a solid surface, the target takes 3 (1d6) bludgeoning damage for every 5 feet it was thrown. If the target is thrown at another creature, that creature must succeed on a DC 15 Dexterity saving throw or take the same damage and be knocked prone.

Charging Bluff. The gorilla moves at least 15 ft. toward a target and then roars and beats its chest. The target must make a DC 15 Wisdom saving throw or be frightened.

Pummel (recharge 5-6). The gorilla makes four fist attacks against a prone target.

 

[dave2008]

But that's my point. A lot of the additions are just extra attacks, skill bonuses, or save bonuses.

Animals from the real world fight boring. And this is on purpose because it's a survival mechanism. They hit you fast and hard, choke you out, poison you, or run away. There is only some much you can do to a beast using real world elements before it starts looking magical.

That's why going for more unique beasts or going though new evolution paths are easier ways to make beasts more interesting.

I guess I still disagree. Have you checked out the revised beasts in this thread? I think they all have traits that respect their natural abilities and are more interesting than the boring stat block in the MM. I've provide a list here: Better Beasts.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

But that's my point. A lot of the additions are just extra attacks, skill bonuses, or save bonuses.

Animals from the real world fight boring. And this is on purpose because it's a survival mechanism. They hit you fast and hard, choke you out, poison you, or run away. There is only some much you can do to a beast using real world elements before it starts looking magical.

That's why going for more unique beasts or going though new evolution paths are easier ways to make beasts more interesting.

Just looking at what has been posted in the thread thus far, rather succinctly proves you wrong. It is entirely possible to make supposedly boring creatures interesting using fifth edition’s rules.

 

[Minigiant]

I guess I still disagree. Have you checked out the revised beasts in this thread? I think they all have traits that respect their natural abilities and are more interesting than the boring stat block in the MM. I've provide a list here: Better Beasts.

Just looking at what has been posted in the thread thus far, rather succinctly proves you wrong. It is entirely possible to make supposedly boring creatures interesting using fifth edition’s rules.

Well maybe I was expecting more than adding more damaging attacks.
Things like adding rage to a chimp or a bluff to a gorilla are cool.
More attacks, however, don't pull beasts out of blandness to me.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Well maybe I was expecting more than adding more damaging attacks.
Things like adding rage to a chimp or a bluff to a gorilla are cool.
More attacks, however, don't pull beasts out of blandness to me.

I mean...most of the beasts in this thread have more going on than just added damage, so...


I’m just confused by your posts ITT, is all. Dave and Paul are doing literally what you’re bemoaning the lack of.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

Well maybe I was expecting more than adding more damaging attacks.
Things like adding rage to a chimp or a bluff to a gorilla are cool.
More attacks, however, don't pull beasts out of blandness to me.

It seems like you didn’t even look at the traits and extra effects (reactions, grapples, pushes, etc.)

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I’ll try to add some of my own later. Not gonna try to do the proper formatting on my phone.

Definitely gonna give some critters Darkvision. IMO a cat’s vision is close enough that if an elf gets Darkvision, so does a cat.

 

[Minigiant]

I mean...most of the beasts in this thread have more going on than just added damage, so...


I’m just confused by your posts ITT, is all. Dave and Paul are doing literally what you’re bemoaning the lack of.

I just had different expectations. Many of the beasts posted here are cool and interesting.

I'm just saying that some animals are boring. A lion claws and bites. You can give it all the extra attacks, grapples, dashes, and pushes you want but to me it doesn't make a lion more interesting. A big cat who claws and bites is gonna seem bland to me.

That's why I like the use of some of the more unique animals in this topic.

 

[Xeviat]

I think a lot of animals should have a sprint ability. Dash on a bonus action works well for that IMO

Humans should have a sprinting ability. Everyone should be able to do x4 speed like they did in 3E, just grant advantage on attacks.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I just had different expectations. Many of the beasts posted here are cool and interesting.

I'm just saying that some animals are boring. A lion claws and bites. You can give it all the extra attacks, grapples, dashes, and pushes you want but to me it doesn't make a lion more interesting. A big cat who claws and bites is gonna seem bland to me.

That's why I like the use of some of the more unique animals in this topic.

Then that isn’t helpful at all.

If a big cat is just inherently boring to you, then your bias is going to make it impossible for the work being done in this thread to satisfy you. You’re presenting an unreasonable goal that can’t even be understood by anyone but you, because it’s just your personal internal preference wrt what is an interesting real life creature.

I mean, if the stuff presented here isn’t interesting, I struggle to see how anythingshort of a spellcaster could be interesting to you in 5e.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Humans should have a sprinting ability. Everyone should be able to do x4 speed like they did in 3E, just grant advantage on attacks.

Eh, plenty of creatures should be better at sprinting than humans, though.

We have had this conversation in at least one thread within fairly recent memory, regarding general sprinting rules.

In this thread, we should stick to making beasts interesting without changing the basic rules of the game.

 

[Xeviat]

Eh, plenty of creatures should be better at sprinting than humans, though.

We have had this conversation in at least one thread within fairly recent memory, regarding general sprinting rules.

In this thread, we should stick to making beasts interesting without changing the basic rules of the game.

God, then cheetahs and other beasts either need huge land speeds or special dash abilities.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

God, then cheetahs and other beasts either need huge land speeds or special dash abilities.

I mean, yes. Cheetahs should be able to sprint several times faster than a human with no specialization in speed.

 

[Xeviat]

I mean, yes. Cheetahs should be able to sprint several times faster than a human with no specialization in speed.

That's a given. But how fast to cheetahs walk when they aren't in a rush? How fast can birds fly? Speed in 5E is way off.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Most animals are a lot better at sprinting than humans. Humans are persistence hunters and can run at moderate speed much, much longer than most other animals. By animal standards we're pretty naughty word at sprinting though, our top speed is pretty pathetic.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

That's a given. But how fast to cheetahs walk when they aren't in a rush? How fast can birds fly? Speed in 5E is way off.

Eh, that’s fine. I don’t care if the baseline is realistic, I just care if things feel right in relation to eachother.

So, the cheetah should move faster than a human or a wolf. Probably 50-60ft, with a bonus action dash and a trait that adds an extra 10-20 ft when dashing, or soemthing like that.

 

[Xeviat]

Eh, that’s fine. I don’t care if the baseline is realistic, I just care if things feel right in relation to eachother.

So, the cheetah should move faster than a human or a wolf. Probably 50-60ft, with a bonus action dash and a trait that adds an extra 10-20 ft when dashing, or soemthing like that.

But human walking and jogging speeds are really, really accurate, so I feel like the other animal's speeds easily could be too.

I'd probably want to be better on the natural armors too.

 

[Volund]

Here is my attempt at updating the Carnivorous Ape from 1e:

The carnivorous ape is larger and more ferocious and cunning than other ape species. They are found in tropical jungles, live a solitary life instead of in family groups, and are fiercely territorial. If their keen senses detect an intruder in their territory, they will attack without hesitation. Carnivorous apes rely on brute force to rend and tear at their prey and, unlike their smaller cousins, do not throw rocks.

CARNIVOROUS APE Large beast, unaligned

Armor Class 12 Hit Points 52 (7d10 + 14) Speed 30 ft., climb 30 ft.

STR 17 (+3)

DEX 14 (+2)

CON 14 (+2)

INT 7 (-2)

WIS 12 (+1)

CHA 7 (-2)

Skills Athletics +5, Perception +3 Senses passive Perception 13 Languages -- Challenge 2 (450 XP)

Keen Senses. The carnivorous ape has advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on sight, hearing or smell. Rending Attack. If both fist attacks hit the same target, the target takes an additional 7 (1d8+3) bludgeoning damage, the target is grappled (escape DC 13) if it is a Large or smaller creature, and the ape can make one bite attack against it as a bonus action. Until the grapple ends, the target takes 11 (2d8+3) bludgeoning damage at the start of each of the ape’s turns, and the ape can make one bite attack against it as a bonus action. The ape can’t make fist attacks while grappling a creature.

ACTIONS

Multiattack. The carnivorous ape makes two fist attacks. Fist. Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 7 (1d8 + 3) bludgeoning damage. Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 7 (1d8 + 3) piercing damage.