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<blockquote data-quote="EricNoah" data-source="post: 369309" data-attributes="member: 4">Here are some ways this thread can continue to live on....1) Express how you feel.&nbsp; Don't express how others ought to feel.&nbsp; 2) Don't make personal attacks.&nbsp; The anti-vileness people aren't &quot;big babies&quot; and the pro-vileness people aren't &quot;terrorists.&quot;&nbsp; 3) I also put it to you that, as in religious and political discussion, there is no way to &quot;win&quot; this argument.&nbsp; So don't expect to go changing minds or hearts here -- express yourself, ask for clarification, etc., but don't expect to win.&nbsp; That might take the edge off of some of the discussion.This topic needs a lot of discussion, but the discussion can easily break down unless you're careful.&nbsp; ***Now, as to my opinion.&nbsp; Evil isn't very &quot;evil&quot; in D&amp;D core.&nbsp; I can see the need for some games to get a little closer to what evil really is.&nbsp; I would be very uncomfortable in a game where the PCs were evil as in &quot;vile darkness&quot; evil, but that sort of thing might occasionally be a useful motivating factor when dealing with NPC bad guys.&nbsp; Why do we read tragedies?&nbsp; Why do we watch gangster movies?&nbsp; Sure, there's a certain visceral pleasure in seeing someone being bad.&nbsp; But I think it also allows us to vicariously experience what it might be like to make a series of bad choices and then suffer the consequences.&nbsp; I strongly feel that a game that explores evil should ultimately deal with the themes of evil:&nbsp; that evil might bring you strength in the short run but over the long haul it will destroy you, for instance.&nbsp; My reaction to the &quot;sealed section&quot; was -- wow, that's very tame.&nbsp; And I suspected it would be.&nbsp; On a dial that goes up to 11, this stuff is about two notches higher than D&amp;D core &quot;evil&quot; in my opinion.&nbsp; Now, as to whether this vileness stuff will be good or bad for the D&amp;D game in general .... I think computer games and music lyrics are in the public eye a lot more than tabletop RPGs nowadays.&nbsp; I don't see this being a big deal.&nbsp; Does it help the D&amp;D image?&nbsp; Probably not.&nbsp; I don't see it doing much of anything, especially as it's a non-core product.&nbsp; We won't see much if any trickle-down from BoVD to future products.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="EricNoah, post: 369309, member: 4"] Here are some ways this thread can continue to live on.... 1) Express how you feel. Don't express how others ought to feel. 2) Don't make personal attacks. The anti-vileness people aren't "big babies" and the pro-vileness people aren't "terrorists." 3) I also put it to you that, as in religious and political discussion, there is no way to "win" this argument. So don't expect to go changing minds or hearts here -- express yourself, ask for clarification, etc., but don't expect to win. That might take the edge off of some of the discussion. This topic needs a lot of discussion, but the discussion can easily break down unless you're careful. *** Now, as to my opinion. Evil isn't very "evil" in D&D core. I can see the need for some games to get a little closer to what evil really is. I would be very uncomfortable in a game where the PCs were evil as in "vile darkness" evil, but that sort of thing might occasionally be a useful motivating factor when dealing with NPC bad guys. Why do we read tragedies? Why do we watch gangster movies? Sure, there's a certain visceral pleasure in seeing someone being bad. But I think it also allows us to vicariously experience what it might be like to make a series of bad choices and then suffer the consequences. I strongly feel that a game that explores evil should ultimately deal with the themes of evil: that evil might bring you strength in the short run but over the long haul it will destroy you, for instance. My reaction to the "sealed section" was -- wow, that's very tame. And I suspected it would be. On a dial that goes up to 11, this stuff is about two notches higher than D&D core "evil" in my opinion. Now, as to whether this vileness stuff will be good or bad for the D&D game in general .... I think computer games and music lyrics are in the public eye a lot more than tabletop RPGs nowadays. I don't see this being a big deal. Does it help the D&D image? Probably not. I don't see it doing much of anything, especially as it's a non-core product. We won't see much if any trickle-down from BoVD to future products. [/QUOTE]

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