Can I get into a good game?

Creamsteak

Explorer
I'm looking for a game with characters of mid levels (6-10) that will give me ample time to converse with other characters and construct new items and plans. Basically, a game where I can motivate the plot with a few other characters.

For example, we could spend a few months dealing with a vague and distrustful political intrigue, while I (the wizard/sorcerer) construct plans to assault a particular dragon that we have gathered information of.

I thought about running such a game, and I'm strapped for time already, but I want that feel. I'm now DMing one campaing, and the campaign I played in previously just collapsed. So, I'm looking for that same laxed character motivated feel, if there is anyone else up for it -please do tell.
 

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Creamsteak

Explorer
If there isn't a requirement that I actually play a Kender that might be fine. You must understand, I can't role-play kender. It's not in my blood... however repeatedly getting riled up by other kender... that I can do.

I can't get into the whole kender vibe. It's fine for a short skit of entertainment, but I'm a serious player when it comes to Role-Playing. I like to develop my own motivations and goals without needing to worry about the story someone else has built up around me. I know how to play in a game laissez faire (it's French, so therefore I cannot spell it correctly). Not all players can or will do that.

It means that the DM provides certain factors (IE: Background material including NPCs, cities, countries, problems, religions, places to go, and other interests), and I can create my own motivation for the campaign.

Let me go over my four current online games (ignoring my 50+ characters for different home games):

In Gnomeworks Psionicle I have a character that I dearly am endeered towards, but he's not exactly free to decide things. There are a bunch of other players first of all, and I can't name all their characters sadly. Our group has a set goal that cannot be avoided without looking like a bunch of side-trecking slackers. We MUST do what we are doing, because there are already too few people fighting for anything other than themselves.

In Heroes of the World I am playing a relatively bland-but good natured character that is basically "on the run" (although technically we are trying to get somewhere, not run from someone, but I'm sidetrecking). Samanosuke is not the kind of character that takes the initiative to do anything other than fight. He's reactive, but not a story setter. He reacts to his enemies, his friends, those that would endeer themselves towards him, and all such things.

In the IR games, I am given that freedom, but it doesn't really last. While your given the ability to do everything you want, literally, you don't see the reactions directly. There are 30 authors, and each one is basically telling the story of his/her faction. Although you can say what your people think, it's very much different in scale. Everything is blown out of proportion to the point where the individual NPCs matter so insignificantly that thousands of them are reduced to a single number. The game, at least with Edena, was incredibly pro-active, pro-creative, and pro-originality. I like that feeling, but with the scope involving world destruction at all times... well let's just say you need to watch your back.

In the LHHS, I'm trying to keep true to the hack n' slash principle by providing ample combat. I'm also trying to be funny by providing some "easter eggs" as the party goes. Most of the jokes won't culminate unless certain things happen, but none-the-less it is fun. I also enjoy the fact that to me, the players appear to be doing what they want. Although Kalanyr is taking them through a "we will do this because we are good people, and we won't expect anything from it" scenerio, I keep the party informed of extra things to go do while they travel. They should have fun because they really are free to go do what they want, although sometimes one player must give in so another player can be appeased. Now that I look back, I wish I had started them at least at 3rd level, but hell... they are there already (soon enough). Hopefully I'll have that group in the graces of some interesting NPCs and at approximately 5th or 6th level, and then they should have a fuller game.

That's more my play style. Give the players every tool they need to go play. Make sure the world has something in it that you can see around every corner. If there isn't much to see, skip the extra crap and go right into the meat of the matter. Sometimes that's combat, other times it's a box of tic-tacs that looks like a bunch of magical, rounded, stones stored in a strange clear case.

So far, almost all games I see on this forum relate directly to an adventure. I like adventures and all... but I want a break-ish game. A game that skips the low level adventures that help character development and training, and jumps right into the heart of being a hero with his own intents and purposes.

A little bit of my gaming philosophy, take with a grain of salt.
The first levels are somewhat forced feeling. Your not quite strong enough (and likely not developed enough) to really see the campaign setting as a world. Your more interested in the quick target, and testing your metal. It's odd how perfect that flows with a character who just finished his normal training.

You will probably take the first or second opportunity you hear about, even if it's a death trap. Your a bit naive in character, but out of character you really just want to get it over with and become a hero instead of "just another ranger." Sometimes I've played with DMs that never let you out of this phase. They also tend to be those that keep on informing you of how much they hate "high" level games (5th?).

You have fun, and you probably encounter at least 1 creature per character level that you have trouble with for some unforseen reason (the invisible, regenerating, damage reducing, fire resistant, immune to weapons, improved grabing whatever that is the first real challenge). OOC you might know what your fighting, but you ignore it IC if your any good. You probably know trolls are weak against acid and fire... but not every character should know that.

Your character learns a little more about combat in these levels, about your limits, and about your goals. You make friends and enemies (the best of which should be the party members). And, eventually you reach that final point where all of you have something to anchor you, finally. You have a community that offers to endorse your fighter to be the new captain of the guard. The cleric is invited to lead the church or do something similar. The wizard becomes the apothecary/mage/enchanter, and your rogue either leads a guild or does some other work (politician in my experience... :)).

Those are four VERY generic examples, but that's where the meat of the game is for me. The meat comes from having all that history to call upon, and knowing that there is a great deal more to explore. Your characters don't settle down, that is definitely true. Your probably doing twice as much questing in a month (and traveling) to accomplish the things that you think your character would be motivated to handle. Your no longer asked to take care of problems, or forced into it (sometimes), but instead your taking it upon yourself to enrich the world and leave a mark.

At least that is my experience... probably just mine.
 


reapersaurus

First Post
creamsteak said:
Although Kalanyr is taking them through a "we will do this because we are good people, and we won't expect anything from it" scenerio, I keep the party informed of extra things to go do while they travel.
<snip>
Sometimes that's combat, other times it's a box of tic-tacs that looks like a bunch of magical, rounded, stones stored in a strange clear case.
wow.
That was just a pleasure to read, cs.

Someone actually TALKING about their approach to gaming online in this forum.
Sometimes from the deafening silence to my thoughts i get in the games i play in, you'd think there were machines on the other side of the PC's.

I like the way you discussed your impressions, without judgment.

When I discuss my thoughts of the games, I always pass judgment, to spur discussion and state my opinion. :eek:

As for The Hack-n-Slash, while it is nice that you throw out so many interesting side-treks that ARE possible, in practice it just frustrates/confuses me (at least) a bit, since we really only can do one or 2 of them.
And since we are kind of required to do things as a group, things like Kalanyr's forcing us to "do the good deed" happen (have to happen?)

And finally, regarding the magic tic-tacs - WHAT do you want me to do about those damned accursed interesting things??!! LOL

They've been piqueing my curiousity for months. I worry I missed some thing I could have done in-character to research them, but I don't see what else i could have had Brawn do than he did... :(
 

Creamsteak

Explorer
WHAT do you want me to do about those damned accursed interesting things??!!

As I can tell, your frustrated for good reasons. Your frustrated because of what I think are two different aspects.

1) You wish you could do everything. (Great, so expand on it IC)
2) You wish you knew the course to take for the best possible results. (Great, so expand on it IC).

There won't ever be a right answer. I expect your characters to be realistically selective, sometimes even sedated (lazy). It's slightly more real to do things as such. If you want to find out more about possible hooks involving those little white rocks, just look around. Sometimes there won't be a single bit of information, but other times you might find something useful or productive.

Also, there will be times when special investments of time could result in other opportunities. Those Tic-Tacs... could be useful if you choose to try using them at certain points. I will never require you to use them for anything, they are really just tic-tacs. If you choose to forget you ever had them, then so-be-it. That's the point... I want you to decide what the point of that small clear case will be.

When my previous DM gave me something similar (jawbreakers) I fed one to a particularly tough orc watching a certain cell block a friend of mine was trapped in. The cellmate was a prior PC that was captured and the player re-rolled a replacement... but I wanted to save him. I had the wizard cast invisibility on me, and I moved down to the lowest floor of the building and left a pile of gobstopers there (which I honestly thought were marbles) on the ground. That orc walked up and picked one of the many I layed out ... and PUT IT IN HIS MOUTH! to my surprise... and next thing you know he bolts out of the room screaming of a broken jaw!

Classic moments in gaming history...
 


Jarval

Explorer
Very interesting CS. I like the break down of playing style at different levels. It's interesting to get your view on the games you play in, as I'm only in the Psionicle.

I can see why you could find the main quest of the Psionicle a little restrictive, but Gnome is giving us quite a lot of freedom on our character actions, letting us make bad choices if we want to. But, as you say, we have got the duty of saving our power and the lives of thousands of psions.

I can see why you get frustrated with low-level games as well. But quite a few DMs avoid higher level play for the same reasons you favour it. The characters have a *lot* more options open to them, and it can be difficult to keep things under control. OTOH, this is less of an issue in PbP games, as the DM has more time to plan (and alter their plans) due to the gaps between character actions.

Sir Osis: If you're will to run a game like CS is suggesting, you shouldn't have any problem getting players :)
 

Creamsteak

Explorer
Don't think I am complaining about the psionicle. I like that game. I really like that game. It is quite good. Etc.

The psionicle is simply not a game that I can do this in. I just had to point that out. None of the games on this board allow me that freedom that I want to put too good use.

And "mid" levels (6th-10th) are not really that high on the rules. That depends slightly on the players, however, as some players make things a pain. I'm not a player that shoots down munchkins for any reason (I have that kind of blood in me at times), but they get in the way when your trying to play for the characters sake.

That's something that this game requires: a motivation to do everything you can (as a player) to fulfill your characters goals.

Limiting the books to Core for characters to start is relatively good for this type of game. Even starting at higher levels, I think that the rules should be added as you come across them. Don't open up all your FRCS books, splat books, dragon magazines, and all that other stuff till after the game starts. Even then, let the DM introduce it to the players rather than the other way around. That's part of the picture when the DM becomes the cartographer instead of the story teller.

I'm guessing I'm one of the few people who have managed to run this kind of game, so I think I'll give advice as I think of it.

But for one, the above is a pretty good basis. As the "cartographer" your job is to detail things and have fun creating all the interesting locations, races, creatures, people, enterprises, guilds (on and on and on)... and then introducing it to the players. I've gotten a "wow" out of groups on some rather mundane introductions. It's also fun to "discover" a prestige class instead of just "taking" it. Stuff like that is what I'll offer now... and I don't think the style is for everyone.
 

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