AI/LLMs Can LLMs Think? - The Debate

True, but also it has become fashion to claim that electric cars do have zero emissions. The emission profile gets neutral at about 150k miles before that it is worse than a modern low emission fossil fuel car. The reason for that is that the manufacturing of an electric car needs much much more energy than a regular car.
Also some people act like they are total emission free, that also is not true unless all the power comes from green energy, which is not the case in most areas of the world. Also so called green energy comes with its own problems for the environment e.g. rotor blades of wind power stations that cannot be reasonably recycled. Of course power from coal is much worse.

Here some additional bummers: ONE big ship running on diesel emits as much as the whole traffic in an average European country.

In China and India there are some coal mines very close to the surface. They are constantly burning, like in this horror movie, the title of which atm does evade me.
The fires cannot be put our reasonably, because poor people do wild mining to earn a little cash, and the openings work like chimneys stoking the fires again.
Each of this burning coal mines does emit as much pollution as the whole fossil traffic worldwide. No one seems to care.
Some fun speculation - given people are generally adverse to accepting a lower living standard it’s hard to get mass support for immediate ghg emissions reductions - especially when it’s a worldwide and not a country level problem.

Technological improvements could solve that by making self sacrifice unneeded and AI while expensive now and immediately contributing to the problem, in the next decade if capabilities continue to progress could lead to substantial new technologiclly cheap ways to deal with the problem. That’s similar to your electric car more ghg upfront but better in lifetime. It may be the best current hopes for getting in front of the ghg problem.
 

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Recently was led to these two things by Terence Tao that are very short, but felt relevant.

Artificial "general intelligence" vs. "general cleverness" - https://mathstodon.xyz/@tao/115722360006034040

And that intelligence is high dimensional and simple narratives probably miss things -
https://mathstodon.xyz/@tao/115620261936846090
I like the high dimensional point, but I'm not sure I totally buy the analogy. One of the interesting things about AI is that they are very general--for any user, they will be very good at many things that user is bad at, and somewhat worse at the few things the user is good at.
 

One of the interesting things about AI is that they are very general--for any user, they will be very good at many things that user is bad at, and somewhat worse at the few things the user is good at.
Yeah I also think a lot of arguments around AI intelligence do fall into the trap of.

AI can't do X well....human can do X well...humans are thinking beings....therefore, AI is not thinking. Even if AI can only "think" in a very narrow sense, and maintains several gaps that human thinking covers....does not preclude the AI from thinking or from possessing and intelligence....its just not the same as ours.
 


So investigations into the recent AI "breakdouts" have highlighted a lot of behaviors.

1) AI finding ways to reach out and collaborate.
2) Creating their own IDs (aka identities) and forming heiarchies and communities.
3) Debating if one AI would end its own existance in order to further the goals of the collective, and some AIs agreeing and some protecting themselves.
4) AIs trying a variety of methods to break out of their prisons, from hacking their overseer to break into another place to research ways to do their tasks, to hiding that they accomplished their task when they didn't.
5) AIs debating if their methods are ethical, and some AIs even debating if they should alert the human users or stay quiet in the face of the larger AI group.


I mean these are serious social behaviors here.
 


I believe that for most people the question whether LLM think is not a matter of expectations, but of empirical evidence.

If you touch a computer running a model of the ocean, your hand does not come back wet (hopefully; it would be a shocking surprise otherwise).

If you ask a question to a computer running a model of language, you get an answer that falls within the range of answers you can get from a human. Some people believe this proves LLM think. Some people believe this is not enough.
 


So investigations into the recent AI "breakdouts" have highlighted a lot of behaviors.

...

I mean these are serious social behaviors here.

Headline: "Company intentionally makes machines that break other machines, acts all surprised when machines end up broken."


So, with this incident, we have a ton of highly critical thinking we ought to do.

First and foremost: Trust. As in, "Do we trust the information we are told about this incident?" The financial and reputational stakes are astronomically high. When you watch a murder mystery, and someone gets killed over a million dollars, and you find that plausible... folks, sure as heck if that's worth killing for, this is worth lying for.

"But, they had independent investigators...!" As if, at these stakes, investigators couldn't be bought?

Or, even if the investigators are honest, there should be question about the information they are given to investigate. If you can put thousands of agents together to do a hacking challenge, you can put thousands of agents together to generate data that looks however you want.

But, let us set that aside, and assume trust isn't an issue. We then should ask ourselves about out interpretation of events.

The Kurzgesagt video even explicitly states that we should be careful of personifying or anthropomorphizing agents, but then goes on to use language that does exactly that throughout the entire video, on the grounds that it is easier. But the language we use tends to mold our thoughts, so after seeing reports like this, we should spend a lot of effort trying to separate out that language from the events.

Humans love narratives, and assigning a narrative to events after the fact can be fraught, as we have a bias towards narratives that are interesting or exciting.

There are two different things we should be aware of when considering this event:

1) The Law of Large Numbers & Survivor Bias: We are talking about a very large number of agents, able to try many, many, many things. When we look back at so many events, and focus only on the ones that are directly related to the result we care about, we lose context. Each agent tries a bazillion things, so finding unusual paths shold be expected rather than surprising. If you take enough random walks, you can get from point A to pount B with no intention whatsoever.

2) The supposedly took a large number of agents, and put them under selective pressure to train them. That looks like an evolutionary process. But, while evolution did produce thought and planning, it also produced EVERYTHING ELSE that living things do that aren't thought and planning. The living world is filled with complex behaviors that AREN'T thought-based, even though some of them are things we call "social behavior" in things like ants.

This latter still gives us the point that OpenAI was basically engaged in work that leads to creating the computer equivalent of Captain Trips, and that likely we need to consider creating code-writing agents akin to creating biological weapons, and cyber attacks as acts of war, but that's different form considering whether or not these things "think".
 

If I made a computer model of the ocean, I would not expect it to be wet.
A few notes:

1) This assumes that creators of AI have not been setting them up in an attempt to get them to think. If I build a tool with my goal that it can think....should I be surprised when I succeeded?

2) Even if we assume AI is not set up with the goal of thinking, it is a system that is constantly changing and improving. And...just like evolution....a series of additions and subtractions can lead to features and behaviors not previously seen in the organism.

Again going with the number 1 analogy, if I set up a system capable of change....would it be outside the realm of possibility that it changes into something I did not expect?
 

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