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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Grogg of the North" data-source="post: 6836960" data-attributes="member: 6682960">I've long thought that when the first monster manual was written the designers had the idea that the group consisted of a fighter (tanking), a cleric (healing the fighter), a rogue (flanking), and a wizard (lobbing AoE evocation magic).  IIRC the monster manual stated when estimating CR of a monster that it should be pitted against a party consisting of those classes.As the later books were written, I feel that the designers either gained more system mastery themselves or assumed a higher level of optimization was being used by players.  While the party they considered fighting the monsters may still consisted of those classes they were definitely using different tactics.  (Magic buffs, Touch AC is Your Save magic, Tripping, etc.)Either way, CR is best used as a measuring stick.  Before I drop a monster against the group I try to think quickly if the party will survive the fight or be a smear on the wall.  I think we've all had that encounter.  Where you sit there as DM and think "What the heck happened?  This was only CR 6!" as the fighter gets eaten, the cleric is knocked out trying to save the fighter and the wizard high tails it back to town.</blockquote>