Changes to Magic

IndyPendant

First Post
From what I've seen on the House Rules forum here, people seem to think Wizards, Clerics, and Druids are fine as is. I have one problem with them, though, so I've implemented the following House Rule that will likely be entirely controversial. It's a lot to read, but you may find it interesting.
**************************************
MAGIC:
Perhaps one of the most sweeping changes I have made to DND is in regards to magic. Before I go into what I’ve done to so radically change it, I should describe why. Wizards in particular get a great many useful ‘utility’ spells—Feather Fall and Arcane Lock are just a couple that come to mind—that have such a limited application that they are almost never memorized in advance—and thus are almost never used, usually reducing the wizard to selecting combat spells exclusively, since those are almost always useful. To a lesser extent, Druids and Clerics suffer from this problem as well. For this reason, I have devised the following changes to the way magic works.

Preparing Spells:
Anyone that prepares spells (i.e., all divine and arcane casters except sorcerors and bards) no longer has to choose spells in advance. Instead, they get that number of spell 'slots' per level per day. At the time they cast the spell, they choose which spell to cast, and simply subtract one 'slot' of the appropriate level. (In other words, ‘standard’ casters have become a lot like the way sorcerors and bards are in the PHB.) You are still limited to the spells you could normally cast--so, for example, the wizard can't cast Magic Missile if he doesn't have it in his spellbook. You also must still spend the time readying your mind to cast the spells; usually this amounts to one hour/day. And any spells enhanced by a metamagic feat will still take up a higher-level slot as normal. (This can perhaps be easier understood by an example: a 3rd-level Wizard with a 14 Int would be able to cast 4/3/2 0th/1st/2nd level spells respectively per day, chosen at the time he casts them, rather than at the beginning of the day when he used to memorize them.)

‘Innate’ Spellcasters:
To compensate for the benefits the other casters now enjoy, sorcerors and bards--and anyone with similar spellcasting abilities--now utilize a total 'spell point pool' that they draw from whenever they cast a spell. This pool is equal to the total spell levels of *all* the spells they can cast in one day; 0th-level spells count as 1/2 for this purpose. When they cast a spell, they simply subtract the spell level from the total 'pool'. You *must* have enough points to cast the spell! No casting Web if you only have 1.5 SP's in your pool...:) Meta-magically enhanced spells remove a number of spell points equal to their newly adjusted, higher level. (So, for example, a 4th-level sorceror with a 14 Cha would have a pool of 18 spell points (6x(1/2)+7x1+4x2) to spend on all his spells, and simply subtracts spell levels from this pool as he casts spells.)

In addition, in the PHB pg 78, it says that if innate spellcasters cast a Metamagically-Enhanced spell, they must take extra time to do so: 1 action becomes 1 full-round action, and longer spells take one addition full round. I have removed this rule; metamagic spells take no longer to cast than the normal versions (unless the specific metamagic feat says otherwise, of course). All other spellcasting rules apply, however (so they still use up spell points equal to their adjusted, higher level for example).

Finally, innate spellcasters get one other enhancement: at the beginning of any level, they can choose any number of spells and ‘unlearn’ them. From that point on, they no longer know that spell, and cannot cast it—this is *not* optional. It’s gone. The benefit, however, is that at the start of the *next* level, they can then replace the spell they ‘forgot’ with another one of equal or lower level, as per usual spellpicking rules (if you decide you made a mistake, you can pick the same spell again:). So, for example, upon reaching 6th level, a Sorceror could choose to ‘forget’ Summon Monster II. From that point on, it’s as if he never knew how to cast the spell. At 7th level, he can then choose any other spell from the Sorceror list of 2nd level or lower to replace it.

Spell Levels:
Spells of the same name cast by different classes are considered the same for the purposes of caster level. So, for example, a 4th/4th Bard/Cleric would cast Bull’s Strength as an 8th level spellcaster; but a 4th/2nd Sorceror/Cleric would still cast Web as a 4th-level spellcaster because Web isn’t available to Clerics.

Counterspelling:
Spells of the same name cast by different classes are also considered the same for the purposes of counterspelling. For example, a Bard could counter a cleric's Bull’s Strength spell--as long as he meets all the other requirements. In addition, when a caster attempts to counter a spell by casting the same spell to nullify it, he makes his spellcraft check as normal. If he fails, or if the spell turns out to be one that he cannot cast for whatever reason, he can *then* choose to cast the spell Counterspell (assuming he knows it:) instead. (I believe somewhere the rules say you have to choose beforehand, but I can't find the page reference or I'd put it in here. This *does* overrule the book.)
*******************************************
Tell me what you think.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

How much playtesting have you done? Sounds a bit overpowered. Don't get me wrong, I like it, but it makes all spellcasters more powerful. Especially Clerics--any spell on the list at any time? Have you made them learn spells like a Wizard to limit this in any way?

I have never liked the memorize spell system in D&D... all I use in my campaign are sorcerors and a home-brew Cleric that runs like a sorceror. No memorization for me!

Have you looked at Natural 20's Elements of Magic? You may like it.
 

IndyPendant said:

Tell me what you think.

I think you need to play for a few more months before trying to design whole new systems of magic. Your system, without using so many words

"All casters who prepare spells are now sorcerers without any limits on spells known.

All sorcerers are now spell point users with a spell point pool that doesn't appreciably affect how many spells they use."

Bahroken.
 

I think the system is interesting and has merit. The only thing is that the already super-powerful magic system DnD uses is that much MORE powerful under this.

I've been toying with this in an attempt to work on some psionic rules (balancing psionics with magic seemed to be a good idea at the time).

I ran into two major problems. One, both systems kept getting more and more powerful and never really balanced. Two, I couldn't get what I wanted in one without horribly altering the other.

This problem arises when you look at the stuff you're doing (innate vs. study) and even the third option (divine vs. arcane).

The thing is, the whole system is not balanced between these different aspects and as such, you can't really balance them off against each other.

The new magic rules were a really neat game mechanic when the developers thought it up, but I'm thinking they're just turning into gaming headaches.

The best thing, if you don't like the present system, is to just scrape it and try to come up with one from scratch. That's my plan for this summer (I'm at school now). Should be interesting, though it may make me bald...
 

Just a really short reply on the "inefficient" use of "Utility Spells" by Wizards.

My House Rule in place for Wizards is an adaptation of the definition/explanation of "preparation". Since preparation is not really memorization, it is simply basically pre-casting a spell except for the final "Components" of the spell, I allow any Wizard to use their spellbook as a spell source. This gives the Wizard 2 options:
1) Being able to perform a spell from within their spellbook from scratch (ie: on the fly), but this takes 10 minutes per spell level (but does not destroy the spell).
2) May read the spell from their spellbook as if it were a Scroll (losing the spell from their spellbook as if it were a real scroll).


What this means is say that the intrepid adventurers are wandering through Dungeon X and come upon a Door that neither the Rogue nor the Fighter can open. Hmm...they really need a Knock spell which the Wizard does not have memorized. If the party has the time, the Fighter can go on guard duty while the Wizard pulls out their spellbook and begins to perform the Knock spell ritual from scratch (taking 20 minutes). If they are desperate and need to get through the door to save their lives, the Wizard can make the choice to "burn" the spell and read it as if it were a scroll.

This adds a flexibility to the Wizard that they sorely need, nor does it unbalance the system. If it becomes a problem that every encounter the Wizard decides to try and cast every spell by Ritual, that is easy to balance between the other players' impatience as well as through DM intervention of events (especially if you have nasty Wild Surge effects for interrupted spellcasting).

Just a few ideas.
 
Last edited:

As it is, you can get those less-common spells just by leaving an open slot at the beginning of the day, and then spending 15 minutes down the road to fill that slot when you need to.

You change turns every spellcaster into something better than a Sorcerer, and turns Sorcerer into something far better than a Psion....

Having played Clerics, Sorcerers, and Psions, I'm with the "BROKEN!!!" people here. It's far too much, and it's just not needed. If you really wanted that sort of flexibility, you should be playing a Sorcerer or Psion in the first place. There's already a solution for what you want, though. Go by class:

Clerics: In my experience they already memorize the rare utility spells, and then just swap them for healing. No big deal here.

Wizards: in the FR is the Feat "Signature Spell": take any one spell you already knew with Spell Mastery, and you can now spontaneously swap any spell of the same level or higher for it.

So, take Magic Missile or something as a Signature Spell, and now you have no problem memorizing Feather Fall since you can always swap it out.

.
 

Has anyone read the optional rules for spell casters in If Thoughts Could Kill? I thought this was an excellent system for arcane casters, divine as well.

What it does is simple. Each spell, like psionic powers, does a fixed amount. Then, a caster can pump it up by putting more points (I called them mana instead of power) into the casting. I also allowed sorcerers to use meta magic feats (standard action, not full round) as soon as they could pay for it. The balance being that if they take Quicken Feat and use it at 5th level, they are only going to get about two spells cast before they are out of (mana) points. Anyway, I thought it worked for my games.

I just linked the attributes to the primary attribute as normal and then used the rules as is for arcane spell casters. It is a very nice system. I would have more comments on it but the player who was playing the arcane caster had to leave the group before we got much into testing.

edg
 

IndyPendant said:
‘Innate’ Spellcasters:
To compensate for the benefits the other casters now enjoy, sorcerors and bards--and anyone with similar spellcasting abilities--now utilize a total 'spell point pool' that they draw from whenever they cast a spell. This pool is equal to the total spell levels of *all* the spells they can cast in one day; 0th-level spells count as 1/2 for this purpose. When they cast a spell, they simply subtract the spell level from the total 'pool'. You *must* have enough points to cast the spell! No casting Web if you only have 1.5 SP's in your pool...:) Meta-magically enhanced spells remove a number of spell points equal to their newly adjusted, higher level. (So, for example, a 4th-level sorceror with a 14 Cha would have a pool of 18 spell points (6x(1/2)+7x1+4x2) to spend on all his spells, and simply subtracts spell levels from this pool as he casts spells.)

Question: Do you feel that one Wish is worth the same as 9 Magic Missiles? :)

This was the question posed to me when I idly contemplated making a spell-pool system. I decided that one wish was far more powerful than 9 MMs, or 3 Fireballs, and put the spell-pool idea back on the shelf until the day when I'm ready to contemplate making up my own, undoubtedly complex, system.
 

That's why I think all spells/powers in a spell point system should use the nice psionic numbers.

Level: Cost
0: 3 free + 1/spell
1: 1
2: 3
3: 5
4: 7
5: 9
6: 11
7: 13
8: 15
9: 17

Now your Wish spell is worth 17 Magic Missiles- you've just wished for a slightly less than 40% charged Wand of Magic Missiles.

These numbers work well with all of the half-thought out systems I've ever come up with.

And in conversion, you just take the existing spelltable, multiply everything out accordingly, and come up with a percentage to decrease the total so the spell-point advantages are partially balanced out, so as to not lob too many spells at the fighter. Afterall, a 20th level Sorcerer gets something like 400 magic missiles per day if he really wants them...
 
Last edited:

Pets & Sidekicks

Remove ads

Top