Checking assumptions

[Random Bystander]

In which I go on a daring quest of munchkinism.

Assume Level 20

AC Bonus (Deflection): ( Bonus^2 ) * 2,000 gp
AC Bonus (Other): ( Bonus^2 ) * 2,500 gp
+5 Full Plate Armour: 51,500 gp
+4 Cape of Deflection: 32,000 gp
+3 Ring of Insight to AC: 22,500 gp
+3 Ring of Luck to AC: 22,500 gp
+4 Amulet of Natural Armour: 32,000
Total AC: 37
Total gp spent: 160,500
Take.

Minimum SR to be worthwhile: 35
Total gp cost: 230,000
Pass.
Phylactery of Continuous Protection From Evil (Caster 20th): 80,000 gp, immune to mental effects
Take.

Robe of Command Word Death Ward (Caster 20th): 160,000 gp, conditional immunity to death effects and negative levels.
Take.

Cost so far: 400,500 gp

Half of budget spent. Move to movement.

Boots of Continuous Fly (Caster 20th): 240,000 gp
Take.

640,500 gp

119,500 gp left for a weapon.

+5 Bastard Sword of Shocking Grasp 5d6 (Caster 20th), Command (Caster 14th): 118,000 gp

The remaining 1,500 gp can be spent as the player wishes.

Final stats:
AC: 37
Immune to mental effects and possession.
Conditional Immunity to death spells, magical death effects, energy drain, and negative energy effects.
Fly speed of 40 feet.
Attack: To-Hit +25 (+28 vs metal), 1d10+5 damage, +5d6 on a Touch Attack or higher, Will Save or SR or obey single command from the following list: Approach, Drop, Fall, Flee, Halt.

 

[Keldin]

I'm not going to bother figuring out all the costs and stuff, but a couple of things I noticed:

Robe of Command Word Death Ward (Caster 20th): 160,000 gp, immune to death effects and negative levels.

Since it's command word-based, that's not quite immunity. All someone has to do is beat your initiative or otherwise prevent you from uttering the command word (i.e. Silence) and you're just as vulnerable as anyone else.

Fly speed of 60 feet.

You're wearing heavy (or medium) armor. 40 feet.

 

[Random Bystander]

I'm not going to bother figuring out all the costs and stuff, but a couple of things I noticed:

Since it's command word-based, that's not quite immunity. All someone has to do is beat your initiative or otherwise prevent you from uttering the command word (i.e. Silence) and you're just as vulnerable as anyone else.

You're wearing heavy (or medium) armor. 40 feet.

Fixed.

 

[Random Bystander]

Post the second.

Assume Level 20

AC Bonus (Deflection): ( Bonus^2 ) * 2,000 gp
AC Bonus (Other): ( Bonus^2 ) * 2,500 gp
+5 Full Plate Armour: 36,050 gp, Only Usable By Fighters
+4 Cape of Deflection: 22,400 gp, Only Usable By Fighters
+3 Ring of Insight to AC: 15,750 gp, Only Usable By Fighters
+3 Ring of Luck to AC: 15,750 gp, Only Usable By Fighters
+4 Amulet of Natural Armour: 22,400, Only Usable By Fighters
Total AC: 37
Total gp spent: 112,350
Take.

Minimum SR to be worthwhile: 35, Only Usable By Fighters
Total gp cost: 161,000
Pass.
Phylactery of Continuous Protection From Evil (Caster 20th): 56,000 gp, immune to mental effects, Only Usable By Fighters
Take.

Robe of Continuous Death Ward (Caster 20th): 224,000 gp, immune to death effects and negative levels, Only Usable By Fighters
Take.

Cost so far: 392,350 gp

Half of budget spent. Move to movement.

Boots of Continuous Fly (Caster 20th): 168,000 gp, Only Usable By Fighters
Take.

560,350 gp

199,650 gp left for a weapon. That's good, because the price is not right.

+5 Bastard Sword of Shocking Grasp 5d6 (Caster 20th), Command (Caster 20th), +50% to cost: 105,000 gp, Only Usable By Fighters

Remaining: 94,650 gp
+5 Heavy Shield: 17,500 gp, Only Usable By Fighters

Remaining: 77,150 gp
Gauntlets of Strength +4: 11,200 gp, Only Usable By Fighters

Remaining: 65,950 gp

Final stats:
AC: 42
Immune to mental effects and possession.
Immune to death spells, magical death effects, energy drain, and negative energy effects.
Fly speed of 40 feet.
Attack: To-Hit +27 (+30 vs metal), 1d10+7 damage, +5d6 on a Touch Attack or higher, Will Save or SR or obey single command from the following list: Approach, Drop, Fall, Flee, Halt.

 

[n00bdragon]

This character seems like he'd have problems just being useful against a CR 20 monster. Let's take the Balor for example. The Balor has quickened Telekinesis to skirmish with either the character or his party members and can then bring Blasphemy to bare, stunlocking not just this character but possibly all his party members at once and then banishing them from the plane (if they aren't on their home plane, which is a distinct possibility when fighting a Balor but obviously not a given) if they ever, in an infinite number of Daze rounds in which they can take zero actions, fail a DC 25 will save. Even if your spell resistance cloak kicks in most of the time I don't think this guy could toe-to-toe with a Balor effectively doing so little damage per hit while the Balor is doing superior damage and if he ever starts grappling with the whip will outclass you in damage by several orders of magnitude. Oh, and he can gate in another Balor. Oh, and if either of them die you are taking 100 fire damage (each) save for half.

This is cute but I just can't see it mattering much at level 20.

 

[Random Bystander]

This character seems like he'd have problems just being useful against a CR 20 monster. Let's take the Balor for example. The Balor has quickened Telekinesis to skirmish with either the character or his party members and can then bring Blasphemy to bare, stunlocking not just this character but possibly all his party members at once and then banishing them from the plane (if they aren't on their home plane, which is a distinct possibility when fighting a Balor but obviously not a given) if they ever, in an infinite number of Daze rounds in which they can take zero actions, fail a DC 25 will save.

This is cute but I just can't see it mattering much at level 20.

Since you have brought in "all his party members", the party Wizard has cast "Haste" and the Cleric has cast "Silence" and on the Fighter, Rogue and Barbarian. The Wizard and Cleric have both prepared Silent spells. Protection from Energy and Stoneskin have been cast on everyone.

 

[n00bdragon]

Since you have brought in "all his party members", the party Wizard has cast "Haste" and the Cleric has cast "Silence" and on the Fighter, Rogue and Barbarian. The Wizard and Cleric have both prepared Silent spells. Protection from Energy and Stoneskin have been cast on everyone.

The point was, this guy just doesn't matter much in a world where casters are the end all be all of combat. Even your own post proves it. The guy is nothing without the support of casters.

 

[Random Bystander]

The point was, this guy just doesn't matter much in a world where casters are the end all be all of combat. Even your own post proves it. The guy is nothing without the support of casters.

True. The 3.5e rules are very unbalanced to a ridiculous degree, and Pathfinder is only a minor fix in that area. A real fix would need a near-complete rebuild. Even his magic items are provided by casters (something Pathfinder does fix). In retrospect, I reacted with anger in a pointless fashion, as you have a very good point.

Still, I wish to see how far this character can be optimized.

 

[n00bdragon]

True. The 3.5e rules are very unbalanced to a ridiculous degree, and Pathfinder is only a minor fix in that area. A real fix would need a near-complete rebuild. Even his magic items are provided by casters (something Pathfinder does fix). In retrospect, I reacted with anger in a pointless fashion, as you have a very good point.

Still, I wish to see how far this character can be optimized.

My own first post was probably a little confrontational and for that I apologize. I was just trying to shine some light on the issues this character faces. If I had to suggest a few changes I'd consider scrapping the fancy weapons and armor in favor of some extra wands and trinkets that he can quickly swap around to slap down effects on things he faces. You can use that fighter BAB to good effect by choosing things that require touch attacks or the like. A good wand collection and a +4 sword will carry you farther than a +5 shocking grasp sword ever will.

 

[Random Bystander]

My own first post was probably a little confrontational and for that I apologize. I was just trying to shine some light on the issues this character faces. If I had to suggest a few changes I'd consider scrapping the fancy weapons and armor in favor of some extra wands and trinkets that he can quickly swap around to slap down effects on things he faces. You can use that fighter BAB to good effect by choosing things that require touch attacks or the like. A good wand collection and a +4 sword will carry you farther than a +5 shocking grasp sword ever will.

It's good. Possibly, by further optimization, he can keep a good (although lower) AC and To-Hit, and as you said, less special abilities on the weapons and armour, while also having the selection of wands you suggested.

Of course, the first thing to do when truly balancing D&D 3.5e would be to go through every single spell and re-write them. In the absence of a desire to complete such a monumental task, I instead will build this Fighter further.

And he'll still be killed by a Wizard in 6/1d4+1*6 seconds.

Edit: I seem to have acquired an idea.