Class skill swap

[Ymdar]

I was thinking about your opinions people:

Is it (too) powerful if I allow PCs to swap their class skills for cross class skills on a one on one basis?


Or with standard rules, is it powerful if I mix (SAGA Edition style) spot/listen/search to perception and Sense Motive/Bluff as Deception or Intimidate/Diplomacy Persuasion?

How 'bout if I mix both of the above?

 

[blargney the second]

We simply ditched cross-class from all our games and haven't looked back.

 

[Mistwell]

Not all skills are created equal. Craft and Profession are not as powerful as Use Magic Device and Tumble, for example. I would allow some changes based on character concepts that make sense to you, but I wouldn't let the players just switch any skill for any other skill.

 

[nittanytbone]

I wouldn't allow cross-class skill swapping.

1) If you want a fighter that can perform epic poetry or acrobatics, you are allowed to purchase Perform or Tumble cross class. That's WHY we have cross-class skills, so that characters can be more versatile without overshadowing the real experts (the bard or rogue, in the former example).

2) It may make it possible to enter some PrCs earlier than may be intended.

3) Some skills are more potent than others. For example, most would agree that tumble is more potent than climb.

4) Variants as presented in UA usually gain things on a 2:3 basis, or worse. For example, the traits that adjust skills usually give +1 to a skill and -2 to another. This is because players will select variants that have little negative impact on their characters. So, if I allowed something like this, I'd make it a 3:1 skill trade.

 

[GlassEye]

I don't think it's too powerful. If you want to allow skill swapping, go for it. There are certain character concepts that just aren't possible with the class skills as they are now and cross-class skills just don't cut it (i.e. fighter as a strategic, leader of troops yet not a single fighter class skill supports that idea).

The comment about entering PrC's earlier than intended is a valid one. You might need to review prerequisites for prestige classes that your players are interested in and maybe adjust as needed.

And if you want perception/deception/persuasion then go ahead. I've included perception (for spot/listen) and stealth (for move silently/hide) because I was tired of four rolls needed when a pc was sneaking around. Combining skills has cut needed rolls in half and it's less disruptive to the scene when it happens.

 

[Ymdar]

Thanks for the answers. After a quick survey with my players I decided to go with swapping skills with minimal DM control to ensure no munchkinism is present.

 

[Vahktang]

Feat: Cosmopolitan

Take a skill that is normally cross class and make it a class skill for your character.

Want the skill to be really good, take a feat.

There are certain character concepts that just aren't possible with the class skills as they are now and cross-class skills just don't cut it (i.e. fighter as a strategic, leader of troops yet not a single fighter class skill supports that idea).

A fighter just fights.
If you want to get into tactics, strategy, logistics, military history, etc, they have to be more than just a fighter.
Have to be a bard or something, too.

 

[Stormborn]

A fighter just fights.
If you want to get into tactics, strategy, logistics, military history, etc, they have to be more than just a fighter.
Have to be a bard or something, too.

Except that not every fighter was in the cavalry so why would Handle Animal and Ride be class skills? What about the fighter that was trained to stand guard at the palace/temple/shrine? Why not Listen and Spot instead? It seems that in a fantasy style world every fighter would have guard duty, but few would be expected to ride out to battle.

All class skills should reflect what a character of that class would normally be called upon to do in that culture and setting. Therefore I to allow swaps on a case by case basis and am planning on combining certain skills to make things easier/quicker on me and the players.

 

[Greg K]

Skill swapping is in the core rules. It's called customizing a class (3.0 phb/p. 94 and 3.5 phb/p110)

 

[nittanytbone]

Thanks for the answers. After a quick survey with my players I decided to go with swapping skills with minimal DM control to ensure no munchkinism is present.

You might like to use the Generic classes from UA. They're a good fit for a rules-looser game.