D&D 3E/3.5 Confused with ranger manyshoot feat [3.5]

[JahellTheBard]

I'm not sure to understand the new feat manyshoots for the ranger, so I will apreciate any help.

Let's make an example.

One of my players has a 8 lev. Ranger, with 18 dex. and skill focus lonbow. No magical or masterwork weapon.

He should usually have two attack each round, at 13( 8Bab+4dex+1 weapon focus) /8.

With rapid-fire ( 2 lev. in 3.5 ed.) he could use the same attack or decide to shoot two arrows instead of the first, and get -2 on all shoots, so :

+11/+11/+6

If he use manyshoots ( at level 6) he can decide to shoot 2 arrows instead of 1, with -4 malus, but how many times? Does it stack with rapid fire?

Can he get as much as 6 arrows / round like this, or I am missing something?

+7/+7/+7/+7/+2/+2 ?


Thanks for your help!

Or

 

[cerberus2112]

Using Multishot, he gets only a SINGLE attack. If he hits, he hits with all the arrows he shot. Of course, its not a full round action, so he can move and do this, which makes it a pretty good deal. It doesn't combine with Rapid Shot, or iterative attacks from a high Base Attack Bonus, or haste, or anything else for that matter. Multishot gives what it says in the description, and that's all you get.

 

[Ravellion]

Yes, so one attack at +9, but doing 2 arrows worth of damage.

 

[Zad]

Does it stack with rapid fire?

No. Rapid shot requires a full round action to execute. Manyshot is a standard action. They are not compatible or stackable in any way.

 

[Darklone]

Yes, so one attack at +9, but doing 2 arrows worth of damage.

Both arrows at full damage? Argh.

 

[Taren Seeker]

Both arrows at full damage? Argh.

well, it's either 2 attacks at +13/+8 or 2 at +9. Depending on the situation, you could prefer the full attack option. I used to think it was crazy, but with the arrow stacking nerf, I'm thinking that Manyshot is OK now.

Full attack: +13/+8
w/ Rapid: +11/+11/+6

Standard action Manyshot: +9/+9, + a move.

Not to mention that you only get 1 roll to do damage on both arrows...for difficult shots you may not want to do that.

Looks ok. I'll be trying it out.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

What if the ranger in question were 11th-level? This feat confuses me too.

 

[Taren Seeker]

What if the ranger in question were 11th-level? This feat confuses me too.

With the same modifiers:

Full attack action: +16/+11/+6
rapid: +14/+14/+9/+4

Manyshot: +12/+12/+10 & a move

16th lvl:

+21/+16/+11/+6
Rapid: +19/+19/+14/+9/+4

Manyshot: +17/+17/+15/+13

Hmmm.
Doesn't look quite so balanced now, does it? Having the extra -2 apply to all attacks would make it better, but my reading of the feat doesn't support that. It's still an all or nothing type attack so against high Ac's you'd probably want to stay with the FAA, and if you are a decent critter (like a Deep Desert Sniper) then you'd want more chances to crit.

EDIT: Added 16th lvl progression and some analysis.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Hmmm.
Doesn't look quite so balanced now, does it? Having the extra -2 apply to all attacks would make it better, but my reading of the feat doesn't support that. It's still an all or nothing type attack so against high Ac's you'd probably want to stay with the FAA, and if you are a decent critter (like a Deep Desert Sniper) then you'd want more chances to crit.

The -2 penalty does apply to all the attacks -- because there's only one attack roll! It's not +17/+17/+15/+13, it's four arrows at +13 -- they either all hit, or all miss.

It's not really a particularly useful feat (compared to Rapid Shot)except perhaps in conjunction with Shot on the Run, or when surprised.

 

[Taren Seeker]

The -2 penalty does apply to all the attacks -- because there's only one attack roll! It's not +17/+17/+15/+13, it's four arrows at +13 -- they either all hit, or all miss.

It's not really a particularly useful feat (compared to Rapid Shot)except perhaps in conjunction with Shot on the Run, or when surprised.

"However, each arrow after the second
adds a cumulative -2 penalty on the attack roll (for a total of -6 on the third arrow and -8 on the fourth)"

Agreed, the part in bold is what threw me.

So at 16th level with more appropriate gear you could get 4 shots at...call it:
16 (BAB) +7 (24 dex) +4 (GMW on bow) +1 (focus) +1 (PBS) +2 (Greater Bracers of Archery) =+31

So Rapid: +29/+29/+25/+19/+14
Manyshot: +23/+23/+23/+23

Hmmm, rates better than a not useful feat IMO. Really nasty if you're flying or somesuch and can really make use of the mobility. You're right, Shot on the run is a natural combo.