AD&D 2E Core Rules 2e - Revived

[Tarsk]

I have been using the Core Rules CD since it was first released. Still having V1, V2, V2 Expansion, and the Patches, I use it constantly for record keeping and character generation. But many many years ago, I found it lacking in one main area -- Game play. The CD just wasn't designed to be used during game play. It also had no concept of game time statistics such as Current Hit Points. Being a developer, I sought to correct this. Contacting TSR, I proposed a new DM Campaign GUI. While they liked the idea, they did not have the source code to Core Rules. They gave me permission to proceed as long as TSR copywrite for the Core Rules data remained intact. I contacted Evermore (RavenSoft) and they too had lost the source code. They said they'd turned it over to TSR and removed it. This left a problem.

To me this just made a better challenge. I created a fully functional library set that I have enhanced over the years. This library allows full access to read/write Core Rules data exactly as the original application did. So much so that a change made by either is fully recognized by both.

Building on this, I added my own data outside of the TSR application that, while Core Rules doesn't know about it, nor modify it, it is kept with the Core Rules records without effecting them. This allows me to add any data I need, expand upon data that Core Rules contains, etc.. To which I have added game play information, adventure record keeping, character diary, family history, property tracking, and more.

The library, which can be used shared (DLL/so) or static (Lib/a), runs on Windows and Linux. The Dungeon Master Assistant (DMA) is a native Windows application, but because the heart (the library) is available on Linux, a Linux GUI could be developed. The library identifies the Core Rules data through a number of means (Registry, config file, directly supplied path), so it basically just needs to know where the files are.

Here are some screen shots of the original DMA I have used for years, and new enhanced DMA I am working on.

I am starting this thread to see if there's any interest in this project beyond my personal wish to keep Core Rules alive. If you are interested, and have ideas to share, I would love to hear them. The more I can put into this, the better it is for all...

 

[Sacrosanct]

. Contacting TSR, I proposed a new DM Campaign GUI. While they liked the idea, they did not have the source code to Core Rules. They gave me permission to proceed as long as TSR copywrite for the Core Rules data remained intact.

TSR hasn't existed since 1997. Who did you contact?

 

[Tarsk]

See next post -- It's more detailed.

 

[Tarsk]

Regarding your comments on the other thread:

"TSR hasn't existed since 1997. How would they give you the OK? Which is something very odd that would happen anyway...

You can use the SRD (or OGL I guess) to recreate a lot of that old material like all 3PP (like myself) do now for books as long as you make the appropriate references in your material to the respective license you're using, but you are limited to what is in that SRD or OGL. While allowing a lot, it does not allow you to cut and paste text as they appeared in the original books or Core Rules. Nor does it allow you to use certain IP, such as the term "Dungeon Master", "Beholder", and others. If you want to use the same text word for word, you'd have to get a license from HASBRO, as they own D&D IP."

--

First, as I said. This has been an ongoing project for me since, well, the release of Core Rules. It took me 2 months to get in touch with the right people. We went back and forth for a number of years, they released 2.0 and still no real time data. Continuing my contacts, they agreed as following the 2.0 Expansion release, they lost the code. It happens. Happened to me. But I maintained my documentation. The actual final agreement was they couldn't make new code and didn't care to. They were pursuing 3.0 and 2E was put aside. So, as long as I didn't modify the existing data (which I do not, just user data, as per Core Rules) and give copywrite, they were fine with me doing a new GUI.

As for your second part, you totally misunderstand. This has NOTHING to do with the books, or text, or copying anything. This is an interface to the Core Rules data files. It's a total extrapolation of the Core Rules process. If, for example, you modify the "Beholder" monster record. Just as Core Rules expects, the Base data IS NOT modified. It is updated in the UserDBas files. Suffice it to say I am not CHANGING anything. All data is loadable and editable through Core Rules even after my code updates it.

This is why, and how, I got permission to pursue a new GUI. Legalities aside, that is for me and Hasbro to worry over. I have my documents and I am NOT breaking any copywrite laws or bypassing any license agreements. I have stayed within the proposal and honored not only the original TSRP3.exe code, but the original developers. And BTW, it's not Odd when you approach them as a Software Engineer with 20 years experience. Yes. I had 20 years coding experience in 1997.

 

[Tarsk]

Just an update regarding "Contacting TSR" .. While as a business they did not exist directly, they were WoC. You will note that the Core Rules CD Cover has TSR prominently displayed...

 

[Belen]

I have been using the Core Rules CD since it was first released. Still having V1, V2, V2 Expansion, and the Patches, I use it constantly for record keeping and character generation. But many many years ago, I found it lacking in one main area -- Game play. The CD just wasn't designed to be used during game play. It also had no concept of game time statistics such as Current Hit Points. Being a developer, I sought to correct this. Contacting TSR, I proposed a new DM Campaign GUI. While they liked the idea, they did not have the source code to Core Rules. They gave me permission to proceed as long as TSR copywrite for the Core Rules data remained intact. I contacted Evermore (RavenSoft) and they too had lost the source code. They said they'd turned it over to TSR and removed it. This left a problem.

To me this just made a better challenge. I created a fully functional library set that I have enhanced over the years. This library allows full access to read/write Core Rules data exactly as the original application did. So much so that a change made by either is fully recognized by both.

Building on this, I added my own data outside of the TSR application that, while Core Rules doesn't know about it, nor modify it, it is kept with the Core Rules records without effecting them. This allows me to add any data I need, expand upon data that Core Rules contains, etc.. To which I have added game play information, adventure record keeping, character diary, family history, property tracking, and more.

The library, which can be used shared (DLL/so) or static (Lib/a), runs on Windows and Linux. The Dungeon Master Assistant (DMA) is a native Windows application, but because the heart (the library) is available on Linux, a Linux GUI could be developed. The library identifies the Core Rules data through a number of means (Registry, config file, directly supplied path), so it basically just needs to know where the files are.

Here are some screen shots of the original DMA I have used for years, and new enhanced DMA I am working on.

I am starting this thread to see if there's any interest in this project beyond my personal wish to keep Core Rules alive. If you are interested, and have ideas to share, I would love to hear them. The more I can put into this, the better it is for all...

Sweet. I still have my CDs and would love an update.

 

[Sacrosanct]

First, as I said. This has been an ongoing project for me since, well, the release of Core Rules. It took me 2 months to get in touch with the right people.

Who are those people? I'm very curious .

We went back and forth for a number of years, they released 2.0 and still no real time data. Continuing my contacts, they agreed as following the 2.0 Expansion release, they lost the code. It happens. Happened to me. But I maintained my documentation. The actual final agreement was they couldn't make new code and didn't care to. They were pursuing 3.0 and 2E was put aside. So, as long as I didn't modify the existing data (which I do not, just user data, as per Core Rules) and give copywrite, they were fine with me doing a new GUI.

This is why it's weird to me. What do you mean "they couldn't make new code"? When WotC bought TSR, they also had the rights to produce and release any of the old product.

As for your second part, you totally misunderstand. This has NOTHING to do with the books, or text, or copying anything. This is an interface to the Core Rules data files. It's a total extrapolation of the Core Rules process. If, for example, you modify the "Beholder" monster record. Just as Core Rules expects, the Base data IS NOT modified. It is updated in the UserDBas files. Suffice it to say I am not CHANGING anything. All data is loadable and editable through Core Rules even after my code updates it.

This is why, and how, I got permission to pursue a new GUI.

I hope you can understand why it raises questions that whoever you talked to just gave you rights to use their IP (regardless of how) without a license. Corporations don't do that. I think I may understand better. I originally thought you were redoing the Core Rules. If I'm understanding you correctly now, you're not creating or releasing anything that is in those core rules themselves, just a new interface that interacts with the existing program. That is, in order to use what you're doing, the person would still need to have access to the Core Rules CD ROM files seperately.

Pardon the poor analogy, but it would be like creating an app that plays MP4 files. You're not doing anything with the actual videos, you're just creating an app that accesses and plays them. Do I have that correct?

 

[Tarsk]

1 - It's been 25 years.
2 - It's none of your business.
3 - I do not have to justify my work or effort.

All it takes is contacting legal at WoC/TSR. Or do you not realize they have a phone, address, and email. You know, they even have a fax. I do not live in a bubble, I live and work in a corporate world. Knowing how to speak to CEOs down to the mail room clerk. Believe it or not, they are human.

They did not have the code. Nor cared to rework it. I did. That is all there is to it.

Plus. You have NO idea what documentation I do or do not have. This discussion is done.

And YES .. To use this you MUST have the Core Rules CD. I am NOT supplying the data. This is a replacement updated GUI. I NEVER said I was sending out the data. You could use it without Core Rules, but you'd have to enter all the info yourself.

If you really wanted, you can modify the base data files directly in Core Rules and totally change the data. Dumb thing to do, but the point is, if you have the CD, you can edit it.

 

[Byrd]

I don't have the CD's required to make use of the GUI, so I didn't vote in the poll.

Is the ISO file available for purchase from someplace like DrivethruRPG?

If not, have you considered asking WotC to make it available for purchase?
---

A separate, but related question:

Does your GUI support the Dragon Magazine Archive CD's? (Which I do have)

 

[Alby87]

That's good. I always tougth Core was such an awseome project. The only thing (text wise) is missing DMR1 book and a "starter set" adventure of some sort: with that you would have a "complete" package for the newbie (I know this was more for reference than starting players).

Please don't do like someone did for the Forgotten Realms Atlas Cdrom. He invested a lot of time fixing all errors on the maps, teasing a lot about that work... just, after completing it saying something to the tune "You know? I put so much work and time on this that I can't bear to release it to everyone. Bye" and disappeared I was helping him to create a patch installer (so you still need to have the original cd installed and not just distribuiting CC3 maps without authorization), but nothing.

Also, just to remember, I've made a little patch for the core rules: https://github.com/Alby1987/AD-DCoreRule2.0Errata/releases/download/1.1/ADnD20CoreRulesErrata1.1.zip

I've checked against official errata published in Dragon, and where errors were present, I modified the RTF, the HLP and the HTML files using period appropriate software.