Could All Weapons Just Do The Same Damage?

[Pour]

I've never really been a fan of some weapons always topping out over others for usage because they did more damage. I know in 4e they have a lot of different weapon traits, reliable and versatile among them, which help differentiate the weapons, and a lot of class-specific boundaries like the rogue and his light weapons or the recent barbarian and his two-handed weapons, but honestly would it be unbalancing or word-shaking to just have all weapons do a standard amount of damage, d6 or d8?

That way I could free up all weapons for all classes, allow players to use whatever they want with their conceptual motivationat the forefront, create new weapons without the worry of power creep, and give some of the more dejected weapons a chance to shine.

This being said, does anyone notice any of the sort of 3e maxing of weapon damage? I've DMed one 4e game and it was very apparent, and I play in a weekly game where weapons aren't so much maximized for damage, but trapped in a very limited spectrum. I want a player to really get a thrill by going, "I can use an iron fan? Warshears? A boomstick?"

Also, by evening all damage, should I also consider removing certain traits 4e has introduced such as versatile and reliable, as they would become much more of boost and perhaps even lead to a second generation "maxing".

Thanks.

 

[Turtlejay]

I wouldn't think that it is a super good idea, but mostly because you are probably going to get some resistance from the folks who want to use a maul or something.

Really though, any PC can take Weapon Proficiency, there are no prerequisites and it can be retrained if they change their minds or fighting style. A PC gets a lot more feats in 4e so this is not an onerous request.

And about the min/maxing, if players are seriously focusing that hard on making their PC's combat death machines, throw a few more skill challenges or RP encounters their way. If that will go over poorly then similarly optimize their opposition.

I am not saying it is a bad idea, just that I think most players will balk at the idea.

Jay

 

[keterys]

I considered making all 1-handed d6 and all 2-handed 2d6 in the d20 variant I'd poked at some time ago, so I definitely think you can make it work, but I think it'll take a little more effort than just saying it's so and moving on.

You _could_ ignore the weapons table entirely and make generic weapons rules so that people can build their weapon as they like "Okay, I'll make an off-hand throwable wind fan" or whatever.

 

[Minigiant]

You could make all weapons deal the same damage and proficiency bonus.
Then the player can choose on property (offhand, versatile, high crit, reach, light thrown, etc)
You might have to give some classes +1 to attack if they have military weapon proficiency for balance.

 

[Stalker0]

Could you make all weapons the same....absolutely. You could even take away the difference between sword/board and THF. The defense and the offense are the same.

You could even say that all races are the same, and just flavor it that elves hear well and dwarves are tough etc.

Basically there comes a line in every game system where you have to decide what you are going to homogenize for the sake of playability and what you are going to differentiate for the purpose of "realism".

A player could rightly ask, "I weild a big maul and that guy wields a dagger, how come we do the same damage?" but another player could also throw in "hey this other guy and I are both humans, but I have a higher dex. Shouldn't I be faster than he is?"

Both points are valid, but dnd addresses them differently. It homogenizes speed for ease and playability, and differentiates weapon damage to increase choice and realism. But you could just as easily switch the two.

So to finish my point, could you do this...yes. Should you? Depends on the game you want to run.

 

[Big J Money]

You _could_ ignore the weapons table entirely and make generic weapons rules so that people can build their weapon as they like "Okay, I'll make an off-hand throwable wind fan" or whatever.

This is a real solution.

Here is my iteration to it:

All 1-handed are Prof +3, 1d8 damage

Plus you have these options when forging/buying any 1-handed weapon

• Lower damage dice or Prof and make it heavy thrown
• Lower damage dice or Prof and make it Off-hand
• Lower damage dice or Prof and make it High crit
• Lower Prof to increase damage dice
• Increase its price (100%?) and make it Versatile

All 2-handed are Prof +2, 2d6 damage

Plus you have these options when forging/buying any 2-handed weapon

• Lower damage dice or Prof and make it High crit
• Lower damage dice or Prof and make it Reach
• Lower damage dice to increase Prof

Set all weapons' weights according to taste (by the book?) and set the price according to type: Simple, Military, Superior, etc.

Cheers,

-- John M.

 

[That One Guy]

This is a real solution.

Here is my iteration to it:

All 1-handed are Prof +3, 1d8 damage

Plus you have these options when forging/buying any 1-handed weapon

• Lower damage dice or Prof and make it heavy thrown
• Lower damage dice or Prof and make it Off-hand
• Lower damage dice or Prof and make it High crit
• Lower Prof to increase damage dice
• Increase its price (100%?) and make it Versatile

All 2-handed are Prof +2, 2d6 damage

Plus you have these options when forging/buying any 2-handed weapon

• Lower damage dice or Prof and make it High crit
• Lower damage dice or Prof and make it Reach
• Lower damage dice to increase Prof

Set all weapons' weights according to taste (by the book?) and set the price according to type: Simple, Military, Superior, etc.

Cheers,

-- John M.

I kind of like that. I wonder how it'd work in game.

To the OP, Just let everything that is improvised be +2 Prof and 1D6 damage - in other words just give them Club stats like wearing a Belt of the Brawler. Similarly, if you really want players to wield whatever, let them just pick up prof feats like they're GP and let them learn to use whatever. Also, find the closest approximation to a desired made up weapon and then have it match something that exists (although I think John M's weapon forging idea covers that really pretty well... except for double and/or defensive weapons).

(I hate to be this jerk, but Reliable is a power keyword, not a weapon keyword)

 

[DanmarLOK]

These thoughts do beg the question how to deal with simple/military/superior ratings. Perhaps something to the effect:
Lower both the prof and damage to get a simple weapon, increase the damage or give it a special property to get a military weapon, increase damage and give it a special property to get a superior weapon?
Also obviously some changes aren't as impacting as others. Changing 'down' a 2d6 weapon to a 1d12 weapon is technically lowering it but by only .5 damage (7 average versus 6.5 average). But a drop from 1d10 to 2d4 is another drop of only .5 where as a drop from 1d10 to 1d8 is a drop of 1.0 damage averages.

This is what happens when you have multiples of dice for damage. It throws averages off. 1d2, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 1d10, 1d12 all scale by 1 average damage. When you start tossing in the 2d4's ad 2d6's that things get wonky in terms of 'value'.

And what value does range have? Right now bows get range, +2 proficiency and a 1d10 damage. So it's got both a reduced damage and proficiency over our average 2 handed weapon here.

But the shortbow, also a +2 prof but only a 1d8 damage, is doing both less damage and has less range. Does the keyword small justify that?

The crossbow, is +2 prof (-1 on our scale) and is down 2 damage dice (2d6 > 1d10 > 1d8). So it's at -3 points on our scale. Two of those pay for the simple rating, the third pays for the range but then it gets skewed because it has the Load Minor disadvantage. Not much of one and you do have to draw the line somewhere with the limited scale we have to adjust things.

Of course we're veering off the OP here because all we've done is come up with a way to create/recreate new and existing weapons in the game that are just as complex as they already are.

 

[Runestar]

Even if you settle on just 1 weapon type, aren't there going to be builds which benefit more from that 1 weapon than other builds? I thought the point of having so many different weapon types is exactly that - different builds get different mileage out of various weapon types, so you have a choice as to which custom weapon you want to round out your build.

I think a compromise of sorts is best. If the PC wants to use some exotic weapon like a war-fan or string which is not covered by the rules, just use the next best alternative (such as the rules governing the spiked chain for the string).

It would be very boring if everything were identical, IMO. Optimization is half the fun in my games...

 

[keterys]

Right now bows get ... But the shortbow, ... The crossbow,

Well, it helps if you start with the assumption that the ranged weapons aren't actually balanced against each other and that you're not really supposed to use some of them (Kinda like light blades - only used by rogues who get an extra kicker) or are encouraged to use melee instead so they're just a little bit worse (crossbows, I'm looking at you)