Coup de grace or not coup de grace?

[Kzach]

My theory is that the PC's are the exception to every rule so their opponents aren't aware that they can get up from unconscious. As far as their opponents are aware, someone who goes down, stays down. So it's not until they've experienced first-hand the PC's ability to 'miraculously' come back to life and continue to be a threat that opponents clue-in and start using coup de grace.

It's also my theory that animals don't care and will go for the kill shot out of instinct.

So what are your 'rules' for using coup de grace on your player's PC's?

 

[JRRNeiklot]

I say what's good for the goose is good for the gander; however, the bad guys might try and capture the pcs instead of finishing them off. But if the word gets around that the pcs always dispatch the wounded, and never take hostages, the bad guys might do the same. "These guys are ruthless, cut his throat."

 

[Obryn]

It's all in character.

Something motivated by hunger will start chowing on unconscious individuals. Ghouls and ghasts are the obvious ones here.

Intelligent foes will act in whatever way is appropriate. Most of the time, that's to leave the unconscious guy and take care of current threats. But, if they keep popping up... Kill 'em.

-O

 

[kitsune9]

My theory is that the PC's are the exception to every rule so their opponents aren't aware that they can get up from unconscious. As far as their opponents are aware, someone who goes down, stays down. So it's not until they've experienced first-hand the PC's ability to 'miraculously' come back to life and continue to be a threat that opponents clue-in and start using coup de grace.

It's also my theory that animals don't care and will go for the kill shot out of instinct.

So what are your 'rules' for using coup de grace on your player's PC's?

If the PC's go down, then if the combatants still have additional attacks, they switch to go after another PC. I will only do coup de grace as a reasonable chance for the other PC's to prevent it. An example is an evil cast hold person on the paladin in the party. The paladin has been failing his saving throw which allowed the evil cleric to get up to him. The rest of the party knew that the cleric was going to finish off the paladin with a coup de grace and managed to get there in time to free the paladin from hold person.

While it wouldn't make sense for animals to not go for the kill shot, I just have them switch targets after a PC goes down.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I avoid coup-de-grace most of the time. I assume that people are always more worried about the guy still swinging his swords and slinging spells then the one lying on the ground - even if he might stand up next round, he is not a threat now. It might be advisable to get some distance, though, and not hesitate to catch him in area effects.

 

[Jack7]

My theory is that the PC's are the exception to every rule so their opponents aren't aware that they can get up from unconscious. As far as their opponents are aware, someone who goes down, stays down. So it's not until they've experienced first-hand the PC's ability to 'miraculously' come back to life and continue to be a threat that opponents clue-in and start using coup de grace.

It's also my theory that animals don't care and will go for the kill shot out of instinct.

So what are your 'rules' for using coup de grace on your player's PC's?

In my game unconscious people don't just get up next round, as is common in a lot of D&D. Like in real life it takes time to regain your senses, to stabilize wounds and treat injuries that are serious enough to be life threatening, though a person can get knocked out and it not be life threatening, and then they can get up in the appropriate time period. I've been knocked out and up and in fair to middlin trim in about thirty seconds. But then again I've been injured badly and knocked out (which is a different kinda thing) and that you don't get up from in a minute or two. Knocked out is one thing. Knocked out and badly injured is an altogther nuther thing.

Non-human characters can sometimes recover much faster in my game though, more like ordinary D&D.

However, I think for the most part though the effective delivery of a killing stroke, and an opponent who is good at killing, will depend upon two things. Setting. What is common for that setting, culture, enemy, way of fighting, etc? And do folks really just jump up from near death, shake it off like condensation on a coke can, and go back to being dangerous? If so then you most especially need to assure that don't happen regularly, or you assure you don't live to see the grand-youngins. If the point of combat is to survive it, then you make that point by assuring the other fella don't. There is no middle ground with killing. If one or both parties are determined to kill, then you only have winners and losers. There is no win-win. But with lax effort and sloppy technique there can definitely be lose-lose.

Secondly, though probably more importantly, is the question of, "is the opponent a professional, or not?" A professional soldier for instance, or warrior/combatant, with a truly dangerous enemy in a life or death struggle leaves nothing to the imagination, or to luck, or to chance. He kills his opponent. He does not leave real threats unaddressed.

If I were in a fight to the death, I would kill and make sure I had killed. If my opponent were a professional, and knew what combat and killing was all about, I would expect him to attempt the same. Hope is not a plan, and killing is not a recreational sport. You either mean it and make damn sure of it, or you take the chance the other guy knows more about it than you do. And that's a real bad way to get an education from the other guy in the field. Better to do your homework on the subject and then finish what you start.

 

[roguerouge]

The gain in realism does not make up for the hassle involved in introducing a new character to the party and derailing the plot and the fun to do that. Never finish them.

 

[Dausuul]

When was the last time you saw a PC coup de grace a monster after dropping it to zero hit points? PCs don't waste time on coups de grace because monsters almost always stay down once dropped, and in battle every moment counts; it's idiotic to go around slitting throats when there are opponents still up and fighting. I figure monsters are used to dealing with other monsters and take the same attitude. To them, a foe who gets dropped to zero is a foe who's out of the fight.

Of course, as soon as such an opponent bounces back up and rejoins the fight, intelligent monsters will change their tactics just as PCs would. They will either start delivering coups de grace, or gang-rush the healer. But the initial expectation is that the guy who's down will stay down.

(I'll add that 4E's "jack-in-the-box" combat, with characters dropping and then popping back up a round later, rather annoys me. Previous editions had some of this too, but 4E has exacerbated it with the "count up from zero" rule, which makes it a tactically wise decision to hold your healing until somebody actually goes unconscious. I would prefer a system that made it more difficult to get knocked out, but if you do get knocked out you stay down for the rest of the fight - that's your penalty for "losing.")

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I'd just like to add I sometimes struggle with the question in my current campaign. One of the PCs took Combat Panache and can fake his own death if dealt a lot of damage. He uses it occasionally, maybe once every 2 sessions. He also tends to end up being the party pincussion, so it's understandable...

I just feel like...while many enemies will upon failing their check, move on to the other active threats, a fair sized minority of them would go for at least one more attack (if in the middle of a full attack routine and unable to move or attack anyone else anyway), or even a coup de grace the next round. I assume especially in the case of a coup de grace, the player would have to suffer it to keep the ruse up, or blow his cover to try and avoid the attack (but with the prone AC penalty). I'm not sure if that's being too harsh or simply fair play, and I'm just happy I haven't had to make that decision yet.

 

[tomBitonti]

To add in some detail ...

Does the character look dead or not? NPCs may think that the character is dead already, and not bother killing them again. A quick heal check or a bluff if the player is faking it seems appropriate.

Does the NPC have the time to administer a Coup-De-Grace? These used to require full round actions, and caused Attacks-Of-Opportunity.

Is the PC easy to attack? A PC laying on the ground, unconscious, may be harder to reach, and even if underfoot, moving a weapon to strike downward seems to take away a defense, and may be hard to pull off.

How does it work Cinematically? I'm thinking of movies where a baddie NPC kills a PC while screened or while temporarily out of reach, mostly to spite the PCs.

Thx!

Tom Bitonti