Creating Scrolls with another caster

[sfedi]

In my group we´ve been arguing about if a Wizard could create a scroll of Cure Light Wounds if a Cleric assisted him (a Cleric without the Scribe Scroll feat, that is).

Is this possible?

If it is, can you post how the rules support this?

If this is not possible, why?

FYI the arguments goes something like this:

-The Scribe Scroll Feat explicitly says that you must know the spell you are scribing. Note that it doesn´t mention prerequisites, just this requirement. OTOH, all the other item creation feats, mention the prerequisites for creating items.

-Yes, you must know the spell to be scribed, BUT, there´s a rule that says that whenever a spell is required in the prerequisites of an item, that spell can be provided by another spell caster that knows/casts the spell

-Since scrolls don´t have a prerequisite (at least explicitly stated) that you must know the spell scribed... you can´t apply the previous rule

 

[Hypersmurf]

In my group we´ve been arguing about if a Wizard could create a scroll of Cure Light Wounds if a Cleric assisted him (a Cleric without the Scribe Scroll feat, that is).

Yup. Note that the person who supplies the XP determines whether it is an arcane or divine scroll.

If the cleric supplies the XP, it's a divine scroll (since XP is supplied by the character designated 'the creator', and it is the class of 'the creator' that determines divine or arcane). If it's the wizard, it's an arcane scroll of Cure Light Wounds - perfect for bards, useless for clerics without UMD.

-Hyp.

 

[Luis De Pippo]

If the cleric supplies the XP, it's a divine scroll (since XP is supplied by the character designated 'the creator', and it is the class of 'the creator' that determines divine or arcane). If it's the wizard, it's an arcane scroll of Cure Light Wounds - perfect for bards, useless for clerics without UMD.
-Hyp.

Then why does the Scribe Scroll feat specifically state that you must known the spell to be scribed? (The same goes with the Brew potion or Craft Wand feats), while the other item creation feats clearly state that you can create an item (ring, staff, woundrous items) whose prerequisites you meet. The text of the feats is very clear on that and the text on prerequisites in the DMG supports this.

There is a difference between permanent items (such as a ring) and those who just store spells and do nothing else. This last category do not have prerequisites, as the DMG speaks of them, and yes I know you must know the spell to be scribed.

 

[sfedi]

Thanks Hyp, could you highlight why/how the rules support this? (i.e. rule´s quote)

 

[Chimera]

I've had a couple of GMs House Rule this so that two casters may work together to create an item. One provides the feat, the other the spell; either may provide the experience and cash.

But again, that's a "House Rule" and not RAW.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

I've had a couple of GMs House Rule this so that two casters may work together to create an item. One provides the feat, the other the spell; either may provide the experience and cash.

But again, that's a "House Rule" and not RAW.

That most certainly is RAW.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Then why does the Scribe Scroll feat specifically state that you must known the spell to be scribed?

Actually, every item creation feat says that you must know the spell prerequisites (Sorceror / Bard) or have them prepared (everyone else) for making any item.

Then, there's the rule on getting help in meeting prerequisites:

A spell prerequisite may be provided by a character who has prepared the spell (or who knows the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), or through the use of a spell completion or spell trigger magic item or a spell-like ability that produces the desired spell effect. For each day that passes in the creation process, the creator must expend one spell completion item or one charge from a spell trigger item if either of those objects is used to supply a prerequisite.

It is possible for more than one character to cooperate in the creation of an item, with each participant providing one or more of the prerequisites. In some cases, cooperation may even be necessary.

If two or more characters cooperate to create an item, they must agree among themselves who will be considered the creator for the purpose of determinations where the creator’s level must be known. The character designated as the creator pays the XP required to make the item.

Typically, a list of prerequisites includes one feat and one or more spells (or some other requirement in addition to the feat).

When two spells at the end of a list are separated by “or,” one of those spells is required in addition to every other spell mentioned prior to the last two.

 

[irdeggman]

Yup. Note that the person who supplies the XP determines whether it is an arcane or divine scroll.

If the cleric supplies the XP, it's a divine scroll (since XP is supplied by the character designated 'the creator', and it is the class of 'the creator' that determines divine or arcane). If it's the wizard, it's an arcane scroll of Cure Light Wounds - perfect for bards, useless for clerics without UMD.

-Hyp.

And equally useless for the wizard in question since cure light wounds is not on his spell list.

So pretty much the one one who could use the scroll would be a bard.

 

[Nail]

Just so we're clear: Note in the SRD Quote in Patryn's post that a feat is counted as one of the prerequistites necessary to make the item. In the case of scrolls, Scribe Scroll is such a feat.

Put another way: there's little reason to have more than one person in your party with the feat Scribe Scroll or any item creation feat (unless time is a critical issue in your campaign).

 

[Chimera]

That most certainly is RAW.

Hey, what's this on my face?

Egg???

Ok, now where's the bacon?