Cunning Sneak Rogue MP2

Istar

First Post
Do you think its a big issue to change at level 5 from a Brutal Scoundrel to a Cunning Sneak.

If you do, then is it compulsory to take the Sharpshooter Talent instead of the old rogue weapon talent +1 TH with daggers.

Does Dark Deeds Armour work with Cunning Sneak move 3 ?

It seems this gives you a huge chance to Stealth and get CA, with Dark Deeds all the time if you roll a good stealth roll, and even without that a lot of the time there is some cover in a room, if not a lot of concealment.

If you have cover and move 3 and make a stealth roll and are hidden, can the enemy target you, are you treated as invisible now ?
Do they take -2 or -5 to attack you, do they know which square you are in ?
 

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1: How big a change is it on the way the character was playing? Brutal Scoundrel to Cunning Sneak is not one I see as obvious (they go almost entirely opposite ways about roguery).
2: No. You can have cunning sneaks with daggers.
 

Being hidden makes you invisible and silent. Any character that is hidden will thus not be seen and their location will not be known to the enemy. Being invisible gives total concealment and thus a -5 penalty to attacks. A character who is invisible is also not subject to OAs and gains CA on any attack.

Basically if you can combine Cunning Sneak with any way to get constant or near constant concealment then you can really sneak around almost anywhere. The Armor of Dark Deeds is nasty in this context as attacking while hidden grants CA which the armor turns into concealment which the Cunning Sneak can then use to hide again. Effectively they can be hidden ALMOST all of the time. Of course they may still fail a hide check and depending on the tactical situation may not have enough actions to pull it off all the time. Various of the MP2 rogue powers will of course help a lot with this.

A properly designed Cunning Sneak really pretty much should be able to hide constantly. Of course most Brutal Scoundrel rogues can get CA in some fashion almost every round as well in practice, so its not THAT big a deal, mostly it just helps them with their defenses against ranged and melee attacks.
 

You can make a stealth check at the end of the move still.

So the enemy still knows which sqaure to target.

Or do they have to "guess" as this seems a bit over powered.
 

1: How big a change is it on the way the character was playing? Brutal Scoundrel to Cunning Sneak is not one I see as obvious (they go almost entirely opposite ways about roguery).
2: No. You can have cunning sneaks with daggers.

I mean is it allowed, like you can change one skill or feat or power per level, can I change this when I go up a level.

Considering also that MP2 came out after my Brutal Scoundrel was created.
 

Being hidden makes you invisible and silent. Any character that is hidden will thus not be seen and their location will not be known to the enemy. Being invisible gives total concealment and thus a -5 penalty to attacks. A character who is invisible is also not subject to OAs and gains CA on any attack.

Basically if you can combine Cunning Sneak with any way to get constant or near constant concealment then you can really sneak around almost anywhere. The Armor of Dark Deeds is nasty in this context as attacking while hidden grants CA which the armor turns into concealment which the Cunning Sneak can then use to hide again. Effectively they can be hidden ALMOST all of the time. Of course they may still fail a hide check and depending on the tactical situation may not have enough actions to pull it off all the time. Various of the MP2 rogue powers will of course help a lot with this.

A properly designed Cunning Sneak really pretty much should be able to hide constantly. Of course most Brutal Scoundrel rogues can get CA in some fashion almost every round as well in practice, so its not THAT big a deal, mostly it just helps them with their defenses against ranged and melee attacks.

One last question:

As you have to move 3 squares from your position to be able to make the Cunning Sneak stealth roll, I am assiming the first and second square away may still trigger OA's as you arent hidden till you stop moving and make the stealth roll ?
 

One last question:

As you have to move 3 squares from your position to be able to make the Cunning Sneak stealth roll, I am assiming the first and second square away may still trigger OA's as you arent hidden till you stop moving and make the stealth roll ?
Assuming you weren't already hidden (remember you roll a new check at the end of the move action), then yes, you provoke OAs.

Also: Only attack rolls auto-fail on a 1. A background+racial+dex primary+training, even on 1 your stealth check should beat the passive perception of almost any even-level monster.
 

I mean is it allowed, like you can change one skill or feat or power per level, can I change this when I go up a level.

Considering also that MP2 came out after my Brutal Scoundrel was created.
No. You can't change it by default. But IME most DMs (including myself) allow rebuilds that fit the character concept better if they appear in new splatbooks.
 

Assuming you weren't already hidden (remember you roll a new check at the end of the move action), then yes, you provoke OAs.

Also: Only attack rolls auto-fail on a 1. A background+racial+dex primary+training, even on 1 your stealth check should beat the passive perception of almost any even-level monster.

Well, at say 9th level a good sneak might have something like +5 Dex, +4 level, +5 training, +2 racial/background/feat/whatever = +16 (and +20 IS feasible but a bit extreme). There are going to be some equal level monsters that a really bad roll won't fool as they'll need +7 Perception bonus and that's not too unusual. Still, even rolling a 7 is pretty much going to mean you beat the passive on anything but some really super high perception monster. When the monster's turns come up and they get an active check it may be a bit harder but with a decent stealth roll most creature's active checks will require a really good roll at best. Even a modestly stealthy rogue at +12 should do pretty well (and that would really be about the lowest stealth you'd ever have as a 9th level rogue).
 

Well, at say 9th level a good sneak might have something like +5 Dex, +4 level, +5 training, +2 racial/background/feat/whatever = +16 (and +20 IS feasible but a bit extreme). There are going to be some equal level monsters that a really bad roll won't fool as they'll need +7 Perception bonus and that's not too unusual. Still, even rolling a 7 is pretty much going to mean you beat the passive on anything but some really super high perception monster. When the monster's turns come up and they get an active check it may be a bit harder but with a decent stealth roll most creature's active checks will require a really good roll at best. Even a modestly stealthy rogue at +12 should do pretty well (and that would really be about the lowest stealth you'd ever have as a 9th level rogue).
Racial and background stack, and cunning sneak Rogues are actually one of the few class/spec combos that aren't hurt at all by going 18 primary before racial modifiers (your secondary only needs to be +1/2 mod, and otherwise you can spend your second stat bump basically anywhere you need it for feat quals). So 6+4+5+2+2=19, before considering items or feats. Some cheap foot slot items that give +2 in heroic can bring that up to 21 easily. I think there are a handful of creatures that are level 9 that have +12 to perception, so you'll need a 2 instead. Still no feat investment.

Monsters with Blindsight are your only real concern.
 

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