D&D General Curbing Guidance after all these years

[Jacob Lewis]

Imagine if you had a co-worker who is always looking over your shoulder, giving you advice and encouragement that you didn't ask for, or offers to "pray for you" regardless of your religious beliefs or practices. Worse, this person does this to everyone and acts like that is their actual job. This is a person who would likely be on a first name basis with the HR rep, and have an entire drawer dedicated for their files.

My simple house rule would be this:  Guidance only works for those who share the same faith as the cleric who casts it. A follower of Tempus, for example, won't appreciate being told by a priest of Silvanus how to climb that tree, or whatever.

 

[billd91]

My simple house rule would be this:  Guidance only works for those who share the same faith as the cleric who casts it. A follower of Tempus, for example, won't appreciate being told by a priest of Silvanus how to climb that tree, or whatever.

Honestly, this just points out how weird polytheistic religion gets approached in D&D. Unless the other deity is considered somewhat antagonistic by the character who has a particular fondness for one god, why wouldn't they also be a worshipper of the other god? I mean, if I were in that society and had a particular veneration for Tempus based on my own priorities or role in society, I'd probably still go to the various public holidays for Silvanus and make the appropriate sacrifices expected of me as a layperson.

 

[Jacob Lewis]

Honestly, this just points out how weird polytheistic religion gets approached in D&D. Unless the other deity is considered somewhat antagonistic by the character who has a particular fondness for one god, why wouldn't they also be a worshipper of the other god? I mean, if I were in that society and had a particular veneration for Tempus based on my own priorities or role in society, I'd probably still go to the various public holidays for Silvanus and make the appropriate sacrifices expected of me as a layperson.

You're not wrong. But I'm only talking about a house rule to deal with a game element that I find problematic. It's not like the bard who inspires everybody with words and theater. This is the cleric acting as a conduit between divine influence and mortal recipient. The character is not directly influencing or encouraging the target directly, but channeling divine energy to assist them in some vague, non-specific way. It's literal magic, and it doesn't even require a response, a reaction, or even a "thank you" from the target. It just happens without any real cost or commitment from anyone. Why wouldn't you spam it?

Honestly, I wouldn't miss it if the spell were removed entirely. Or at the very least, require the use of a Channel Divinity. Or Hit Dice. Or something.

 

[Piperken]

You could depending on setting, tie a small act of propitiation in response to the PC receiving the benefit of Guidance.

Like, making a donation of something specific at that deity's temple, helping to repair a wayside shrine dedicated to a local saint, etc.

The PC who receives Guidance cannot be the recipient of that spell again until above is completed.

 

[Stalker0]

Here is the houserule I have used for years now (at least 4 campaigns)

Guidance
Targets: Up to 6 people (basically enough to house the party but not a larger group of people)
Duration: 1 day (concentration)

Effect: Target gains +1 to ability checks. Casting guidance a second time dispels a previous casting.


I said ok if this is going to be an ubigitous spell, I'm going to make it simple and easy. Effectively the party has it on all the time (except when they shift to other buffs). Its a simple +1, so I don't have to worrya bout a super good result giving them an outrageous skill result. Hell they can just add it to their character sheets most of the time so we never have to think about it.

Its a rule that has served me well. The spell is still incredibly useful and I basiclaly see it in every campaign I run. but it no longer consumes any air in the game itself, we don't have to argue about it or worry about when it can be applied and when it can't. Just everyone got their bonus, great, we move on. And at +1 its a solid effect but I have found it no longer warps skill results as it once did.

 

[Stalker0]

Honestly, this just points out how weird polytheistic religion gets approached in D&D. Unless the other deity is considered somewhat antagonistic by the character who has a particular fondness for one god, why wouldn't they also be a worshipper of the other god? I mean, if I were in that society and had a particular veneration for Tempus based on my own priorities or role in society, I'd probably still go to the various public holidays for Silvanus and make the appropriate sacrifices expected of me as a layperson.

Honestly considering that clerical magic is actually real...almost no dnd campaign takes religion seriously enough. Every tom, dick, and harry would be super religious....I mean this isn't faith anymore. the gods ARE REAL, we can literally see their magic happening in the world. Actual miracles and magic.

 

[billd91]

Honestly considering that clerical magic is actually real...almost no dnd campaign takes religion seriously enough. Every tom, dick, and harry would be super religious....I mean this isn't faith anymore. the gods ARE REAL, we can literally see their magic happening in the world. Actual miracles and magic.

The main problem I see with this logic is that the typical D&D setting has plenty of other magic-wielding people whose power isn't divine but still looks pretty miraculous. So while the real magic might breed a lot of faith, it could also breed a lot of cynicism and distrust of religious figures as charlatans as well as conspiracy theories.

 

[Stormonu]

Honestly considering that clerical magic is actually real...almost no dnd campaign takes religion seriously enough. Every tom, dick, and harry would be super religious....I mean this isn't faith anymore. the gods ARE REAL, we can literally see their magic happening in the world. Actual miracles and magic.

Also depends on how common magic is - Joe Farmer & family might never see a spell cast in their presence. 2E tried to insinuate that few priests could actually cast spells (and were rare "chosen" individuals) - limited to PCs and exceptional named NPCs with most other priests being 0-level non-casters.

 

[Blue]

Preventing Guidance abuse: Play it by the rules, and talk to your players.

Play it by the rules: It only lasts 1 minute. Characters don't have an exact countdown timer in their heads to when a longer task is going to make the check, even if the DM lets the players know so that they can work out what the other characters are doing for the period. So it's really only usable on tasks lasting 1 minute or less.

Talk to the players: You mention not wanting a fight with the players, I can't picture it turning into a fight with anyone I'd want to run with if I just talk to them first. "Guidance lets them get a bonus on a check they are doing. You can cast it ahead of time. They can ask you for it. But when someone says they are doing something, you can't jump in with "and I cast guidance".

Is it still spamable? Yes, but in a "Brother Jonas, can you give me Gond's blessing as I attempt to understand the mechanics of this trap?" which is flavorful and adds to the game. Which I don't see as an abuse.

If you play with an antagonistic set of players who refuse that when you speak to them and your only way to control them is a house rule, tell them that it's an insight check to notice someone about to do something they could cast Guidance on, and then they need to beat the person who announced what they are doing in an initiative check. Otherwise do it ahead of time.

 

[Adamant]

I have the following limits on Guidance:

1. Can't be used on an action that takes longer than a minute, like searching for a safe place to rest, crafting an item, etc.
2. Can't be used during conversations.
3. Can't be used while stealthing
4. Must be used before the check is made

It took a while for my party to get used to it.

I'm exclusively a player but that's pretty much how I play Guidance on my own characters (even with a lenient DM I tend to try to stay on the logical, believable side of RAW/RAI). The only minor difference is that I'll sometimes use it before a stealth check if I think my character could get away with it. My bigger problem with Guidance is that I have to remember to use it in the first place! When I don't spam Guidance it makes remembering to cast it much harder, and my party members don't get used to me casting it all the time so they don't usually remind me or ask for it.

Here is the houserule I have used for years now (at least 4 campaigns)

Guidance
Targets: Up to 6 people (basically enough to house the party but not a larger group of people)
Duration: 1 day (concentration)

Effect: Target gains +1 to ability checks. Casting guidance a second time dispels a previous casting.


I said ok if this is going to be an ubigitous spell, I'm going to make it simple and easy. Effectively the party has it on all the time (except when they shift to other buffs). Its a simple +1, so I don't have to worrya bout a super good result giving them an outrageous skill result. Hell they can just add it to their character sheets most of the time so we never have to think about it.

Its a rule that has served me well. The spell is still incredibly useful and I basiclaly see it in every campaign I run. but it no longer consumes any air in the game itself, we don't have to argue about it or worry about when it can be applied and when it can't. Just everyone got their bonus, great, we move on. And at +1 its a solid effect but I have found it no longer warps skill results as it once did.

I like this idea a lot, although a +1 might be a tiny bit on the weak side (not necessarily a bad thing, considering how strong a +1d4 is, but maybe a +2 could be experimented with). It's too bad I likely won't get to try it out, since I almost exclusively play Adventurers League (which doesn't allow houserules except where there's ambiguity).